Training with weights

[AngelaG]

No I don't mean weight lifting. I mean getting the little ankle and wrist weights and practicing kicking and punching. In your opinion a good or a bad thing? I've had several differing opinions.

[Aefibird]

I've trained generally with them before, as well as using them to perform basics with and kata. Personally, I've no problem with them and never had any, but I've heard others say that they're a no-no and shouldn't be used.
Mine are only a cheapie 1&1/2 kg set from Argos anyway.

[random]

I think if you do 50 kicks/punches without any extra weight or resistance and then do 50 kicks/punches with you would definitely notice the difference. I have heard people argue that this principle allows them to do half as many kicks/punches; I don’t actually subscribe to this halfway approach to training.

I don’t have any but in theory any extra resistance can’t be a bad thing. Although I am sure that you have to be careful when kicking the bag and using strikes that don’t use the knuckles.

On the negative side, if you have supports around the ankles and wrists too much it can have the negative effect of weakening those joints (no one wares sweat bands on the wrists anymore).

Any kind of resistance training, whether it is resistance bands, holding cans of beans in your hands or tying weights to your arms and legs can have very positive effects, but like any form of training if it is done wrong or too much it can start to have negative effects.

[Andy]

angelag said:

No I don't mean weight lifting. I mean getting the little ankle and wrist weights and practicing kicking and punching. In your opinion a good or a bad thing? I've had several differing opinions.

For kicking and punching, they are definitely a bad thing, as they encourage weight assisted movement of the joints beyond what is natural.
They can/will lead to hyper extension of the joints.

They do have value in passive stretching exercises, or pre-match muscle trickery, but otherwise, do not use them.

I used 8 lb weights, but the principle is the same.

[random]

I have been doing a little research into this, not too in-depth but it would seem that these training aids are favoured in sports lke baseball. I haven’t found anything to do with striking sports/arts.

Andy makes a good point, if you are punching into fresh air then there it a tendency to over exaggerate the focus at the end of the punch ad also because of the extra weight, gravity, motion and all that you would start to use the muscles for the wrong thing, that is stopping the weight from flying forward, again this is just theory, but that could be disastrous especially if one then punch without the weight, I imagine the tendency would be to still hold back/pull back the weight (muscle memory).

Again just theory, do you think there would be any mileage in using them for say kata practice where you are just going through the moves slowly and not putting full effort in, obviously not using them when you ‘do’ the kata for real?

[Andy]

random said:

Again just theory, do you think there would be any mileage in using them for say kata practice where you are just going through the moves slowly and not putting full effort in, obviously not using them when you ‘do’ the kata for real?

Very little to be honest.
Weight on the end of a limb has no benefit to the typical movement expected in a Kata, sparring match or other endeavour.
You're better to be focussed on the other benefits derived from such practise, rather than turning them into some psuedo-enhanced means of training.

e.g. the muscleature involved in throwing a punch or kick, have no real benefit from a wrist or ankle weight, but the potential for self injury is great.

They do have a use, but you need to be clear about what that is.

[random]

Can you quantify what you mean? Any form of weight training is weight on a limb and that has been proven to be an asset in many facets of life. Surely the performance of an exercise, which includes extra weight, can help? Perhaps not.

To be honest I have not found anything that would make me want to include them in an exercise programme of mine, but what use would they have?

As to the musculature (that is the arrangement or disposition of the muscles in the body or an organ) it can only really be affected by surgery or major trauma, the muscles are where they are and do what they do whether there is an extra external stimulus, i.e. punch bag or leg and arm weights. Weight training just enhances the strength and flexibility (if done correctly).

Proper practice affects the bodies’ ability to perform certain tasks well and there is no substitute for regular, repetitive, reproduction of correct and precise techniques.

[Andy]

random said:

Can you quantify what you mean?

Sure.
If you want to enhance say a cross, or a reverse punch, then the most beneficial muscles to train, are ones that you use in extending or even retracting that technique, not the ones you use to hold the arm in an extended position.

Moreover the added mass on wrists or ankles, can lead to overextending elbows and knees while punching or kicking, and if used for things like running, can alter natural movement to the point where injuries are much more likely.

[kyokushinphil]

I train in the gym average 4 times a week and train specific body parts each day so is that any good?

[random]

I am not quite sure how you envisage training with these wrist and ankle weights, I never thought of just keeping the arm extended.

Further more the muscles with cause the arm to flex are the same ones that would, if you wanted to, keep it extended. I was going to write a fuller explanation but googled it instead, this site explains all the muscles and what they do and how they relate those around them. www.instantanatomy.net/arm/muscles.html. If you are throwing aright cross or hook you still use all the muscles, the body doesn’t isolate some, they all work together, or at least they should.

I can find no evidence that running with these weights has the effects you describe. Problems with running occur due to incorrect footwear, warm up and general technique.

I think we can leave hyperextension of the arm alone now, unless you are using these in combination with a bag then the risks are obvious.

I also think we have to move away from the practice for application, that is just standard punching and kicking and look at the muscles we want to develop generally and how these weights can effect that. We have two different muscle types and we have to gear our training towards their development. And explore how these weights might help or hinder.

[RigsVille]

I understand that training with these sort of weights on your legs is a good way to improve the power and speed of your kicks, but I also understand that using them on your wrists can be dangerous as they can place too much stress on your elbow and wrist joints.

Funakoshi in his book Karate-do: My Way of Life makes a mention of him wearing a particular type of heavy shoe to enable him to work his leg muscles.

[random]

I have also seen some weighted gloves, not quite sure if the negative effects can be the same as wrist weights.

[Aefibird]

random said:

I have also seen some weighted gloves, not quite sure if the negative effects can be the same as wrist weights.

I dunno if I'm thinking of the same ones that you are, but my Wing Chun Sifu has a pair of those.
His are filled with sand in the fingers and have padded palms. They also have kevlar in them to prevent them being slashed. I don't know where he got them from, or even if they're on general sale (they look like they type that would be issued to police or special forces, actually!) but when I next train at W.C. I will make sure to ask him.

[random]

This site www.gungfu.com/cart-htm/exercise_gear_personal_equipment_free_weight_attachables.htm has some crazy training devises, including a lifejacket you would not want to go swimming in.

[Aefibird]

That's crackers....