The Ki to Martial Arts?

[padwan]

probably the best way to go lol

I was like "a frog in a sock". - is that the same principal as I couldnt hit a cow's arse with a shovel

& yeah welcome to my life !!! - still its always nice where you also have the odd day when you can do no wrong !!

& are you up t'north then ;D & if so which of Russ's seminar's did you go to

[AngelaG]

Aefibird said:

Anyone else ever get those days where everything that you do martial arts related is utterly utterly hopeless? ? Or is it just me?

A few weeks ago I had a week or two where I just couldn't seem to get anything right; I seemed slow, unco-ordinated, my distance was shot, I felt clumsy and seemed to be making basic mistakes with the simplest of techniques. Other people said that they couldn't notice any difference (maybe a masked insult there ;D), but to me at the time I was crap... I was so frustrated with myself, and the more I tensed up the slower and clumsier I became. Eventually it all seemed to iron itself out but for a while there it was horrible!

Back to Ki. Assuming Ki is real (for arguments sake) How can we utilise it in proper stressful 'battle' situations? From what I have seen Ki build up always seems to have some sort of prepartion techniques (Firewalk, qi-gong etc.) Obviously you can't do this as you're about to get attacked so how do you ensure you are using ki???

(Am I making any sense here?)

[AngelaG]

By the way... nobody has commented on my incredibly witty title to this thread! ;D

[thingy]

padwan said:

& yeah the mind is without a doubt the most powerfull weapon that you have & the clearest example of this - in keeping with the Ki subject is intent.

If you pick a point say LI 10 for argument sake & while you are merrily battering away thinking nice happy thoughts or start doubting if it will affect the person all you will get is a partner with a very sore arm & they will have just experienced the normal surface type pain.

Whereas if you start thinking shall we say slightly more negative things ;D & actually visualise whatever it is that you want the person to feel then you are pretty much going to get yourself taken off their xmas card list very rapidly lol

+ obviously the more bizare the thoughts you have the funnier the reaction in your partner lol ;D

An interesting post, I think.

I'm not sure I entirely understand it all, particularly the
"+ obviously the more bizare the thoughts you have the funnier the reaction in your partner " sentence.

The bizare thoughts bit - what does that mean? And how is the reaction funny?

I've spent a while thinking about this whole post.
I can't speak for Ki, but the "intent" thing:
a) Someone attacks you, you are intent in defending yourself?
b) You're being attacked, as part of your defence you opt for giving a knuckle sandwich in the mush - it's your intent to put your attacker down?

I'd think it's important that "intent" isn't confused with "anger" or "hatred" or such extreme negatives.
Would you agree? Am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

Cheers.

[Tommy_P]

My thoughts on KI? I'm still waiting.
I believe there are somethings on this earth that just can't be explained so the jury remains out. I am waiting patiently for someone to show me KI in action.

I'm gonna be 48 years old and have been involved in martial arts since around age 11. In all those years I've yet to come across anyone who was able to use KI on me or demonstrate it and believe me I've met and sparred or trained with many people. I've had people try but with no results. I've had chinese stylists who swore by it fail to demnostrate it to me only to give the normal excuses.

What I have seen on many occassions though is some pretty neat parlor tricks!
Like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe, there are more things on heaven and earth, but I'm still waiting.

At the moment my best explanation for KI is when the body is working in perfect harmony and everything comes together at the right time. When a baseball player hits that home run, that's KI. Nothing supernatural, just a coordinated action performed without thought.



Tommy

[padwan]

this could be a bit of a long one so keep your coffee & smelling salts handy !!

from my point of view - before I got involved in the PP stuff I had done Judo, Muay Thai, full contact karate. So as you can imagine I was used to getting good hiding lol

but even though it really hurts when you get hit hard & anyone who says it doesnt is either a liar or someone I would never want to have an argument with lol it is always a 'local / surface pain' which I guess you get used to to a certain degree - & had been with people who claim to be able to do PP's & just bang it really hard - so I was quite cynical bout the whole thing- anyway.....

So first time I litterally got a tap off Russ & particularly Pete & had picked myself up off the floor muttering ' What the f**k was that ' my immediate thoughts were

1) cant believe something can hurt so much with so little power
2) I have never felt anything like that before

the reason being was as I previously said every other time it had felt surface pain this time it was totally internal & felt like an electric shock coming out of my feet as - KI disruption which is starting to put the body out of balance & eventually shut down.

So out sheer stupidty I got Russ to do a few more & exactly the same result no matter where on the body I got tapped. - This has toally sold me on the ki idea !!!

Also we did the freaky 101 day which spilled out into the bar in the evening but thats another story

So back in england proudly sporting my many bruises & my thigh length one which I was particularly proud of (dont ever ask for a wave kick with a chi ball !!!) went to see Pete & had exactly the same done again & since then have been regularly thrown out of my karate club for not playing nicely lol

Now as I said in a previous post if you are going to use ki then the simple & in my opinion (for what it is worth) & effective way to use it it to relax & I know this is eaier said than done. Classic example is waveform & again I am NOT claiming to be an expert at this nothing is further from the truth if you want an expert then speak to Pete or Russ.

Anyway if you are doing wave punch/elbow etc & try to leather it you automaticaly start tightning up & therefore restrict the ki flow & it just becomes a normal punch/elbow - which of course hurts & will do a lot of damage but its not in the same league as if you do a wave.

These are examples of using Ki - now if you want to get onto the many people who are claiming yoda like power then thats a different matter & again I have seen on video people doing this & have heard first hand from very reliable sources that they have seen this done & on people who are certainly not little pet uke's !! so I dont doubt that its possible.

Interlude ---------------------------------------------------

Palour Tricks

Again as I said & totally agree with Tommy / Angela when you are in the dojo & playing with the energy stuff you can produce some incredible results when you add intent & various different players to a strike - but you are just playing as you have time to do a qigong exercise if you want, get your visualisation right, line yourself up & away you go all without having someone trying to put their fist down your throat -this is having a bit of fun not serious SD. Now on the intent front - your intent is basically to quote Steve Wallbank ' take them off the planet' lol so whether its anger/ hate etc its whatever flicks your switch.

Your mind can dictate what the recieving person feels & I know this may sound stupid but if you want to take it to extremes I have had by Russ the pac man chi ball - as in the video game & Pete has done three stage chiball which feels like you have had your chest caved in with a wrecking ball & then ripped out with a JCB & you always have the world famous Jellyfish which I cant recommend highly enough lol & its funny to see peoples reactions as long as its not you on the recieving end & of course a very nasty sense of humour helps.

[AngelaG]

Right, this is probably a very stupid question, and once again it works on the hypothesis that Ki exists..but is it possible use someone's own ki against them? So rather than disrupting or taking away their ki you use theirs to attack etc?

[Aefibird]

Well, I've heard 2 theories about this.

The Qigong chappie that I've done a bit of training with believes that chi is a very personal thing ; you have to learn to 'train' and use your own chi. Your chi can interfere with someone else's, but you can't 'take' it.

However, the Aikido instructor I used to train with (before he completely wrecked his shoulder and had to spend long periods of time doing nothing at all) was very into Ki. We wern't a Ki Society Aikido group, but it was certainly heading that way. He used to go on about how someone who is trained can take an opponents ki and use it against them - follows on with the Aikido principles of using an attackers own strength against themselves.

As for what I believe?? I'm just a lass from Barnsley and it's all a bit deep for me...

I'm gonna concentrate on my own ki first, before thinking about what I may or may not be able to do with someone elses.

[padwan]

sorry for the delay life has been a bit hectic recently

I am currently on an aikido sabbatical at the moment & I used/ still do aikikai style- now my teacher is also my Reiki master so he is well into the energy stuff thankfully lol but he always used to teach from the perspective of extend your Ki outward to your oponent to make your technique very powerfull & without using any strength & when you get hold of him give him a kicking with the utmost peace & harmony & respect of course lol. - So I guess this is a form of disruption because you are using your Ki to overide the effects of your oponent.

I guess the nearest you get to actually taking someones Ki is absorbing their attack or their energy as they come forward & move with it rather than just standing there.

but I guess at the end of the day its whatever perspective you happen to have on the subject & its like kata you can make a living out of arguing the pro's / cons & meanings of it or until no one can be bothered to listen anymore anyway lol ;D

[AngelaG]

padwan said:

but I guess at the end of the day its whatever perspective you happen to have on the subject & its like kata you can make a living out of arguing the pro's / cons & meanings of it or until no one can be bothered to listen anymore anyway lol ;D

[glow=yellow,2,300]For all the people that ridicule it it still cannot be denied that this is one of the most looked at topics on this forum!!! [/glow]

[AngelaG]

One of the things my brain decided to compare it to whilst I was being instructed on the OCI Southern Seminar was electrical current. In the same way it seems that far too much is as dangerous thing as far too little. So therefore you can overload a person with their own ki, and cause them to 'blow a fuse', or you can take away their power supply (ki) and cause them to shut down.

[padwan]

electricity is vey good analogy because as the concept of Ki has become more widely accepted in the west all the bah humbug brigade have tried to measure it & basically its along the line of EMF - just not as loud lol ;D

hmmm anyway- & when you hitting points you are just altering the 'appropriate circuits' so to speak- thats why you can also get good effects using enhancement/ retardation points.

Obviously these effects only tend to be good for the person doing the technique not the poor bugger on the end of it & same principals goes for using seal points although if you use them properly there is a very high chance of only using it once lol

[AngelaG]

I read in an article that different foods can affect ki (for good OR bad I suppose). Does anyone know anything about this?

[Aefibird]

AngelaG said:

I read in an article that different foods can affect ki (for good OR bad I suppose). Does anyone know anything about this?

I can't say I do, seen as most of my knowledge of Ki can be written on the back of a postage stamp.

However, I'd say that just as eating junk food (for example) will affect a persons physical body, it'll most likely have an influence on their Ki as well, as mind/body/spirit/etc all seem to be inter-related.

[AngelaG]

Hmm very true: "Healthy Body, Healthy Mind". Which gives me an idea for another thread