Position of fist in upward elbow strike

[miffersy]

Personally I cannot see a Strangle Technique, I can however with proper execution see an excellent knockout blow along with damage (crushing the top vertebrae of the spine, due to the powerof the technique )

[AngelaG]

dickclark said:

angelag said:

Possible, but then I think the question would be is it actually an elbow strike, or is it something like a strangle!?!

What the Hey, can you elaborate on the strangle?

The head inside the crook of the arm, and pull up, grinding the knuckles into the side of the neck.

[dickclark]

I just cannot see what you are saying. Let me play a bit, or do you have a picture somewhere?

[random]

It isn’t so much a strangle as pulling someone’s head off. ;D

Haven’t we touched on the crux of the problem, we all see things differently, or at least one group of people will see it one way and so on…so does it really matter where the hand is, where is the focal pint, the arm joint, inside and out with either explanation, and making sure that which ever explanation/example one is thinking about or executing, is done effectively to produce the required outcome.

[miffersy]

I just cannot see what you are saying. Let me play a bit, or do you have a picture somewhere?


I cannot see it either. I have just tried executing the move and with the neck in the crux of my arm my knuckles come nowhere near the side of the neck.

[Aefibird]

I just need longer arms.

[random]

aefibird said:

I just need longer arms.

Time to bring out the rack ;D

[Mr. Precision]

maris said:

Which is better?

"In all budo, and not just karate, interpretations of the art by those who are training differ according to the interpretations of their instructors. Moreover it goes without saying that variations in expression are characteristic of each individual." Gichin Funakoshi.

People teach what they've been taught, often with no more reason than it was the personal preference of their own teacher.

[maris]

Thanks all for your replies. They were very helpful. I too have always felt that to face the bottom fist upwards gives me more range of motion and better muscle/hip connection to the technique; its just that my confidence was rather shaken by the correction given to me (which was further shaken by other senseis telling me to do it the way I origanally did it). After reading your replies I think i'll continue doing it the way i feel is best.

Anyway, does anyone know whether the postion of the bottom fist (towards ear or upwards) has a definite affect (not based on feeling but scientifically) on alignment of the body/muscles that are used?

Also, in kata gankaku or is it empi? there is a move where you smash your left elbow towards your right open palm. The first of the left elbow has the knuckels facing forward; is this an upward empi or is it something else?

[dickclark]

I think your are looking at Empi. I believe some use an open hand and some use a closed fist here. Not a kata I know well so have not a clue at to what is intended, but it does not look like a empi.

[AngelaG]

I was thiniking it was gangagu...

[jones786]

I did a few months of Thai last year. Upward elbows are very hard to land in sparring. The Thai boxer bloke off the film The Quest (the one who dies) does one and knocks that black guy out who he was fighting.

I was taught to throw it from as high a stance as pssible so that it drives right through the target better. Also the palm should face upwards so that the point of the elbow will connect. The fist can be clenched or unclenched depending on personal preference. If your palm is facing your shoulder or your ear then you will probably end up hitting with the flat part of your elbow as opposed to the point. Try it on some pads.

Obviously this technique is useless against people wo are much taller than you and your probably better off just throwing a regular uppercut.

[julescqb]

The position of the fist differs (as far as Goju Ryu katas go). The elbow strike is NOT really meant to be UP, because if you were to miss your target and follow through, you would leave your armpit exposed. This exposes a variety of areas than can be attacked with very bad consequences. The Brachial artery runs right through the arm pit for one, the brachial plexus (nerve plexus similar effect to solar plexus) is right there, and getting REALLY technical, the number 1 point on the heart meridien line is right i that area as well. All that aside however, as far as Goju Ryu goes, the position of the fist is BOTH ways, it just depends on which part of which kata you are doing, but the strike itself is ALWAYS and outward strike, NOT up. (Again, this is Okinawan Goju Ryu application....your system may vary)

[darkstar]

jones786 said:

I did a few months of Thai last year. Upward elbows are very hard to land in sparring.

i don't have a lot of confidence in the upwards (vertical) elbow shot unless you're just using the lower part of the arc and aiming at ribs from inside their guard or within the clinch. even from there i prefer to come outside and over their arm with something else.

like...

..the arcing up, horizontal or overarm shots, which are amongst my favourites techniques for all out stopping power combined with it being so fast from close up that they can rarely even flinch before it hits home.

elbows are where it's at.

[bob]

for shotokan the palm should face the ear. for other styles it may differ. the big point here, and you can take it from all the previous posts, is that for every technique there are a lot of ways to do it, this does not mean that you should do it the way that feels best. always do a technique the way your instructor teaching at that time tells you. the reason is that everyone has some reason for doing it a certain way. yes for some it is because their instructor said so, but for others they have a genuine reason. if you think back to your first classes, virtually everything you were told to do felt strange or alien, now you know why you persevered. i certainly found that a straight punch felt weak all those years ago, now i know that it can be much stronger than a hook if executed correctly. you cant dismiss a technique or variation of one untill you know it inside out. you have to persevere and when you have a good understanding of the technique you can then choose. every style has very good reasons for its execution and you have to know why that way is good before you can say this other way is better.