The importance of fitness?

[Andy]

OK, inspired by random's post;

random said:

andy said:

My favourite (stopwatch required).

Form your class into partners, facing each other in two straight lines.

One side does pushups for 60 seconds, while the other side jogs on the spot and counts for their partner, then the other side goes.
Then the first side does crunches for 60 seconds while the other side jogs and counts, then the second side goes.
Then the first side does burpees for 60 seconds while the other side jogs and counts, then the second side goes.

Partners counting and jogging should be encouraging the person performing the set.

The partners give each other their reps within the sets, and if you pull it out at squad trainings or say monthly intervals, they can get some feedback on their improvement and fitness.

If it's a junior class, you might want to try 30 second sets first.
I've had people running off to the toilets to be sick after the burpees.

Is this a health club or a MA Club ;D

Personally I hate this sort of thing during the class, I go to learn karate, not tire myself out doing cardio vascular workouts. Fitness comes through practice, which can be a plus side, I wouldn’t go to a club that made me do press ups and sit ups and all that stuff.

First of all, I agree in principle on at least one level.
For me, the warmup section of a class, should be just that, a warmup to make forthcoming activity safe.
So when it goes beyond say 15 minutes, you enter the realms of circuit training, and that's not what you are shelling out your hard earned wonga for.

However, fitness can add greatly to your ability to apply your martial art in any area, be it tournament, Kata or Tesco's car park on a Saturday night.

As you get older, fitness often decreases.

Thoughts on these themes?

[andym]

Personally I enjoy the fitness side of my Karate. Press ups and sit ups give me conditioning to make my moves faster and stronger, the CV work will allow me to fight longer without having to stop and get my breath back. On the other hand however CV work can be done outside the class in one's own time.

[Andy]

What about when you get older andy?

[andym]

Define 'older'?

[Andy]

When bit's start falling off,' like in 'Death becomes her'.

[andym]

I think it depends on the person, we are all different and as such grow old in different ways, different things stop working, different limbs seize up. But.....the training you've perviously undertaken should stand you in good stead and a lil exercize in the golden years can't do any harm.

[random]

Fitness is invaluable for a healthy well-balanced life. Lower cholesterol, balanced blood pressure, less stress are just some of the benefits, there are obviously more.

I hate running but I still run for 20 min every day, don’t know how far but I run hard and constant, I then follow this up with weights, various muscle groups each day.

On top of this I stretch every day and do front kicks and side kicks, round house, and lots and lots of punches. (This probably accounts for my distaste for anything other than karate in the dojo).

I would hope that good intensive training in the dojo would develop strength, flexibility, muscle tone etc. But to achieve any of the above ones diet has to be good, when I was younger (under 30) I could eat and drink anything, now I have to be a little careful, as I tend to put on the pounds if I am not careful.

From an instructor’s pint of view…there is a responsibility to ensure a rounded development of the student, this may include strength exercises as well as cardio vascular workouts as well, on balance if this was to become part of the regular training schedule, which it must if it is to be effective, then I would expect the amount of lesson time to be greater, we train for about 60 min, add in cardio vascular and strength exercises I would expect a lesson to be 90 min at least, then I suppose the actual MA wouldn’t suffer, and those without the time etc. to train regularly outside of the dojo the extra training they need/require.

Really the question is how much time should be spent doing the MA and how much doing CV work?

[Andy]

From an instructor’s pint of view

LOL. Love the typo. ;D

Really the question is how much time should be spent doing the MA and how much doing CV work?

mmmmmyeahbutnobutyeahbutnobut
Me personally I think a responsible Instructor will point out any way a student can improve, and sometimes that means highlighting that their CV fitness is a weak link, but like you said, not every week.
If they won't put the time in, then that's up to them?

There's a link between CV and MA (show me any military training program that does not include CV), but in the Urban domain, there are inevitable compromises to be made.
Maybe to get the gate up on classes, and/or retain students.

[AngelaG]

Any karate class should have an element of fitness anyway. Doing strong basics, fas & flowing kata, ippon kumite etc. can be very good exercise....



If done properly

[Aefibird]

angelag said:

Any karate class should have an element of fitness anyway. Doing strong basics, fas & flowing kata, ippon kumite etc. can be very good exercise....

Yeah, I'm always fit to drop after a round of basics at my dojo. Additional fitness work on top of that would just finish my poor asthmatic self off! ;D

[random]

aefibird said:

angelag said:

Any karate class should have an element of fitness anyway. Doing strong basics, fas & flowing kata, ippon kumite etc. can be very good exercise....

Yeah, I'm always fit to drop after a round of basics at my dojo. Additional fitness work on top of that would just finish my poor asthmatic self off! ;D

My reason for not wanting any in the first place ;D ;D

[jack]

I'm split with this one, fitness is important and I enjoy warm ups strecthing etc but I do agree with the first post, I don't want to shell out money on press ups when I could be learning karate. One of the clubs I train at, warm up for 45 minutes and I get fed up with that, I feel short changed, it's like I'm being robbed. At another club we stretch and chat with each other for 10 minutes, and then the lesson formaly starts and we do kata at different paces to warm up, the rest of the lesson is strong hard karate. I think I would prefer the latter.

[darkstar]

a typical Muay Thai club will "warm you up" for at least an hour before breaking into any technique training, bagwork or sparring.

the club i attend make their fighters classes do 3 hard circuits (kettlebells, overarm pullups to exhaustion etc etc) before any MT starts, and then they still have bag punchout drills for further conditioning.

obviously as they are training only for fighting, conditioning is paramount.

but as Angela said the actual doing of karate is low level cardio & interval training anyway and so will contribute to the overall workout.

[Aefibird]

Different martial arts incorporate differing amounts of fitness training. Boxers need to train fitness in their boxing training sessions, as they are training to be "ring fit", therefore the work they do in their sessions has a direct affect on their other boxing training.

However, a lot of karate/TKD/other traditional MA's need only a reasonable level of fitness to be able to take part in a class, most of which is concentrated on techniques, rather than actual fitness for karate.

Therefore depending on how much you like your fitness training might depend on which section of martial arts you're drawn to anyway.

[darkstar]

aefibird said:

However, a lot of karate/TKD/other traditional MA's need only a reasonable level of fitness to be able to take part in a class, most of which is concentrated on techniques, rather than actual fitness for karate.

and is "fit enough to take part in a class" also fit enough to master the art?

Therefore depending on how much you like your fitness training might depend on which section of martial arts you're drawn to anyway.

possibly true.

but if all other factors are equal, will not the fitter (therefore faster and stronger) practitioner ultimately be the better?