Beginners lessons

[AngelaG]

When you first started out do you think you would have preferred lessons purely for beginners before you were let out into the wilds of the main dojo, or do you think it's better to get straight in and just train with everyone right from the start? What are the pros and cons of each system?

[andym]

When I started it was a fairly new class, the highest grade was 9th Kyu so my whole class was a beginners class if you like.

Good points - They'll get relevant instruction and more of their instructors time. They won't feel so embarrassed to ask questions if there isn't a class full of senior grades. They won't get left behind whilst doing Kihon. They can perfect their moves without picking up bad habits.

Bad points - 2 lots of integration, 1st into their own class then again into a senior class. They won't get to train with higher grades until they move up. They may feel intimidated when moving up and leave. They'll be clones of their instructors, not really thinking for themselves.

Personally I'd prefer beginners to train with the whole class, the benefits of sharing knowledge and letting them think for themselves is far greater than moulding a clone army that need telling what to do constantly.

[pasmith]

"the benefits of sharing knowledge and letting them think for themselves is far greater than moulding a clone army that need telling what to do constantly."

Couldn't agree more.
I'd still say that a good beginners class would be good though.
We had someone turn up on Sunday and I'm sure they went away feeling out of their depth.
Even 15 mins set aside before the main class just to explain how things work to new people would be a benefit.

[nkudahc]

if you don't mix beginners with the general population you do away with the whole sempai/kohai relationship....from the beginning anyway

but i have anothe question, if you don't throw the beginners in with everyone else at the beginning, at what point do you?

[andym]

Good point!

But at the end of the day we are all beginners, to some extent.

We class 'beginners' as 10th Kyu's (White Belts) then it's seperated again to 'junior grades' to 6th Kyu (green belt) then 'senior grades' 5th Kyu (Purple belts) upwards.

[pasmith]

I'd personally say that a beginner is someone that has never been in one of your classes. After that they know roughly what to expect even if they don't know any techniques.
I think that time should be put aside to explain how the class works, what the MA is that you do, what is expected of the students, etiquette and all that.
Metaphorically letting them get their swimming kit on before pushing them in the water.

I'm thinking about putting together a beginners newsletter about the Karte that I do that can be given to people when they turn up for the first time.
A little history, rules for sparring, instructors credentials, grading structure, that kind of thing.

I think stuff like that really helps the rank beginner feel their way into things.

[random]

When I first started MA we thrown in at the deep end, or, to be more accurate, punch bags for those preparing to fight ( my first MA was Thai Boxing), I soon realised it worked both ways.

Later when I gravitated to Shotokan Karate I stood at the end of the line with the other beginners, or white belts at one end and it just increased upwards. It worked for me, and the others in the club, but then the instructor could cope with this kind of club, some just cannot, and that is the most important thing. Instructors should not try and teach beyond their abilities.

I have no problem with those who have no MA experience training with those who have a little or a lot, as long as the person teaching has the ability to train from one end of the class to the other without boring one end or not challenging the other.

[Andy]

angelag said:

When you first started out do you think you would have preferred lessons purely for beginners before you were let out into the wilds of the main dojo, or do you think it's better to get straight in and just train with everyone right from the start? What are the pros and cons of each system?

Good question, or topic rather.
I think if the environment is such that oldbies can limit themselves appropriately for the sake of newbies, then that's the best format to have.
Lessons will be more intense and developmental in that kind of scheme than repeating after teacher, but then, if you have kids and OAP's in the class (for example) you need to have a different strategy.

Not a simple answer, but it's not a simple question.

[pasmith]

"When I first started MA we thrown in at the deep end, or, to be more accurate, punch bags for those preparing to fight"

In my opinion that is exactly the kind of thing that should be avoided. People that could develop into perfectly fine martial artists could be put off by that approach and never come back.
Heavy contact sparring should be carefully and thoughtfully introduced progressively so that people become accustomed to it.
Having heavy sparring right from the start will serve as a filtering process and you'll probably be left with the hard people that could probably have a fight anyway.

My personal "thing" that I think MA should be for is taking a complete non-fighter (ie Me) and turn them into a competant fighter (or as far along that route as they as an individual can go) through progressive exposure to increasingly hard levels of sparring, tactics and techniques, backed up by an intellectual understanding of what they are trying to achieve.

[Shorin Ryu Sensei]

angelag said:

When you first started out do you think you would have preferred lessons purely for beginners before you were let out into the wilds of the main dojo, or do you think it's better to get straight in and just train with everyone right from the start? What are the pros and cons of each system?

I toss beginners right into the middle of my regular class. I advise them from the start that they will get lost and frustrated, but there is no better way to get them to see and experience what is going on, and what they will be learning. I always partner them with a more advanced student that helps them out throughout the class. It's worked well for me for over 25 years now.

[Aefibird]

We have a sort-of both approach. There are dedicated beginners (white belt) classes midweek, but beginners are also welcome to come along to the weekend classes as well. That way they can train on their own with other newbs if they want to but they can also mix a little with the other students if they want to as well.

When I first started the system wasn't like that. All beginners started on Mondays, which was a "basics" class but one that everyone went to. It seemed scary at the time to be a whitebelt at the bottom of the line and to not know all the other people whith higher grades, but I soon got used to it.

I think that as long as beginners are treated carefully and respectfully (not just there as a "punchbag" or not just there to bring in the £££) then it's OK to have lower grades in with higher grades. Both can learn a lot from one another.