Karate for Everyone?

[AngelaG]

Aefibird said:

No, but there's less chance of a lower grade beating up a higher grade for offering unsolicited advice than vice versa.

I'd walk out of any dojo that allowed a higher grade to 'beat up' a lower grade simply for being cheeky.



That's why we invented push ups! ;D ;D

[AngelaG]

Couldn't sleep last night and ended up thinking back on this old thread - and thinking maybe I was asking the wrong questions.

Is karate for everyone - yes.
Is a particular dojo for everyone - no.

Everyone has different wants and needs. People start karate for different reasons and these will develop over time. Someone people want full contact, some people none. Some people want to train 7 days a week, some people one. If you want to train 7 days a week at a dojo there is no point in going to a dojo that only offers one training session a week.

For some people karate may be simply going through there kata and kihon in their back garden - they may never step through a dojo door again. Other people need a dojo to keep them motivated, or to work with partners etc.

It all comes down to: what is karate? If you do nothing but study the heian kata in your own home for 10 years are you still doing karate? If you decide to discard kata and work on competition sparring, are you still doing karate? If you decide to work on nothingbut gedan barai for a year, it is still karate?

Karate is for everyone - it's just a different version of karate. My karate may not be for you, yours may not suit me.

Angela

[Sionnagh]

How am I supposed to put forward an argument when you post stuff I agree with? ;D


Mick

[Aefibird]

AngelaG said:

It all comes down to: what is karate? If you do nothing but study the heian kata in your own home for 10 years are you still doing karate? If you decide to discard kata and work on competition sparring, are you still doing karate? If you decide to work on nothing but gedan barai for a year, it is still karate?

I'd say it's still karate. it might not be right for me but if it's what 'floats someone else's boat' then fine.

However, what about other MA's that call themseleves karate but have been developed from other areas of MA as well as karate?

I'm thinking of many schools in America who teach "Korean Karate" and of other hybrid martial arts such as Kajukenbo and Kempo Karate.

Are they still karate? Does it make a difference?

What can be classed as "karate" and can we even define the term "karate" so well that a person could look at someones MA training and confidently declare "thats karate!"

[kev]

I'll add a little fuel and say i don't think karate is for everyone or that someone may do karate for the wrong reasons.

A quick example is a mate of mine who over the years has always thought he was a bit of a hard man and would have no problems with getting in to a fight. He's never done any training and all the years i've known him i'm sure he could have battered me if he wanted to cos i've never been a fighting person. This, i think gave him some comfort, i.e. i can batter you no bother etc.. don't mess and all that.

Well guess what?? All of a sudden because i'm doing karate, he wants to join now too! Why?? not because he actually wants to but he feels threatened now as i can defend myself far better than before and he might not be able to batter me now, and he always gets annoyed when i go on and on about it, quoting moves in Japanese etc. So now he is gonna go along and waste senseis time for a week or 2 then quit when he thinks he knows enough all because he has a dented ego at me being able to defend/fight a bit now.

I don't really know where this is going so i'll stop now!

[AngelaG]

Kev said:

I'll add a little fuel and say i don't think karate is for everyone or that someone may do karate for the wrong reasons.

A quick example is a mate of mine who over the years has always thought he was a bit of a hard man and would have no problems with getting in to a fight. He's never done any training and all the years i've known him i'm sure he could have battered me if he wanted to cos i've never been a fighting person. This, i think gave him some comfort, i.e. i can batter you no bother etc.. don't mess and all that.

Well guess what?? All of a sudden because i'm doing karate, he wants to join now too! Why?? not because he actually wants to but he feels threatened now as i can defend myself far better than before and he might not be able to batter me now, and he always gets annoyed when i go on and on about it, quoting moves in Japanese etc. So now he is gonna go along and waste senseis time for a week or 2 then quit when he thinks he knows enough all because he has a dented ego at me being able to defend/fight a bit now.

I don't really know where this is going so i'll stop now!

Well you never know, he may actually enjoy it and it may help reduce his ego and less inclined to go around battering people?

I'm sure many people start for different reasons than they end up staying for.

[shadowplay]

Kev said:

I'll add a little fuel and say i don't think karate is for everyone or that someone may do karate for the wrong reasons.

A quick example is a mate of mine who over the years has always thought he was a bit of a hard man and would have no problems with getting in to a fight. He's never done any training and all the years i've known him i'm sure he could have battered me if he wanted to cos i've never been a fighting person. This, i think gave him some comfort, i.e. i can batter you no bother etc.. don't mess and all that.

Well guess what?? All of a sudden because i'm doing karate, he wants to join now too! Why?? not because he actually wants to but he feels threatened now as i can defend myself far better than before and he might not be able to batter me now, and he always gets annoyed when i go on and on about it, quoting moves in Japanese etc. So now he is gonna go along and waste senseis time for a week or 2 then quit when he thinks he knows enough all because he has a dented ego at me being able to defend/fight a bit now.

I don't really know where this is going so i'll stop now!

maybe your answering another question

"is everyone for Karate?"

[AngelaG]

shadowplay said:

maybe your answering another question

"is everyone for Karate?"

What IS Karate? Define when karate stops being karate and becomes something else?

[Aefibird]

AngelaG said:

What IS Karate? Define when karate stops being karate and becomes something else?

Oh boy, that's a tough one. It's easy to define karate in general terms (e.g. "a martial art that uses all parts of the body to defend and attack" or "a martial art characterised by the uses of strikes, utilising fists, feet, elbows, knees and other body parts to inflict damage on an opponent")

However, the specific defenitions are a bit harder. At what point does karate stop being karate and start being (for example) Ju Jutsu? The joints locks of JJ are also present in Karate.Yet, they're both separate martial arts.

I'm not really making a clear point here so I'll stop wittering and shut up!

[Sasori Te]

This is in reference to what was said on the first page.

I'm going to have to disagree just a little bit. I think everyone needs feedback from someone qualified to give it to them. You could have a lower rank looking at a higher rank doing an advanced kata and if the kata wasn't familiar but was still executed with good focus and strong technique the lower rank would probably say that it looked good. Here's a not so well known secret. You can look good practicing poor technique as easily as you can look good practicng good technique depending on who's doing the observing.

[Sasori Te]

Now to post on this page:

What difference does it make as to the definition of karate? The word karate didn't even exist in a formal sense until the great meeting of the masters in the 1920's.

Technically since kara and te are Japanese characters after this meeting, then any empty hand Japanese art could be considered karate. This would also include any imports from Okinawa to Japan.

However, wouldn't this discount any style that utilized weapons?

I think ultimately karate is just a name. Let's use the term book as an analogy. When we think of the definition for book we think of maybe a cover, a spine and some pages. All books have these things in common (for the purpose of this discourse, books on tape don't count). Just because books have these basics in common are they all the same? Can you differentiate between books by using this definition?

To sum up I would have to say that a particular style name is much more important than the general description of karate. I've rambled long enough. My head hurts and I'm going to take a nap now.

[seeker]

Aefibird said:

I'd say it's still karate. it might not be right for me but if it's what 'floats someone else's boat' then fine.

However, what about other MA's that call themseleves karate but have been developed from other areas of MA as well as karate?

I'm thinking of many schools in America who teach "Korean Karate" and of other hybrid martial arts such as Kajukenbo and Kempo Karate.

Are they still karate? Does it make a difference?

What can be classed as "karate" and can we even define the term "karate" so well that a person could look at someones MA training and confidently declare "thats karate!"

I'm not sure how it is in England but here in the U.S. different forms of martial arts seem to go in and out of style (is there a pun in there?). Way back when Karate was the "in" thing. Even Elvis did karate. TO even get someone to look at your school you needed to have karate in the name of your school somewhere so like a relitively unknown art (back then) as say tae kwon do had to identify themselves as Korean karate. That's where that came from.

Since then there has been many changes in popular styles as people (actors and athletes) that practice that style become popular. The T.V. series Kung Fu and Bruce Lee made chinese styles popular in the 70's (Funny thing is in the 60's Bruce Lee helped make karate popular as the Green Hornets side kick (another pun?) Kato), all the way to today where Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was made popular by Royce Gracie's three consecutive championships at UFC.

I guess people will always keep flocking to what they percieve as the "ultimate" fighting style and schools will try to give the people what they want. I know of one school that I refuse to even darken their door as I've seen them go from karate, to kung fu, to ninjutsu, all with apropriate name changes. I thing their calling themselves Ultimat Urban Combat or something close right now.

[Aefibird]

seeker said:

I know of one school that I refuse to even darken their door as I've seen them go from karate, to kung fu, to ninjutsu, all with apropriate name changes. I thing their calling themselves Ultimat Urban Combat or something close right now.

Rolls eyes in disgust.

[AngelaG]

seeker said:

I guess people will always keep flocking to what they percieve as the "ultimate" fighting style and schools will try to give the people what they want. I know of one school that I refuse to even darken their door as I've seen them go from karate, to kung fu, to ninjutsu, all with apropriate name changes. I thing their calling themselves Ultimat Urban Combat or something close right now.

It would be interesting to find out what their old members make of all this swapping around. I wonder if their lessons change with the name? I'd be pretty gutted if I had poured myself into one style, only to go in a few months later and be told hat it had changed.

[Petek]

I suppose you could say what's in a name.

Karate is an empty hand fighting system. Most unarmed combat systems do share common ground - a punch is punch, a kick is a kick.

I agree that certain martial arts go in and out of fashion. karate had its' roots in the need for self defence on okinawa, due to the confiscation of weapons. Ju-jitsu has it's origins in the need for samurai to defend themselves after losing their weapons. In modern times neither of these situations occurs - in the UK at least. So people's reasons to study the martial arts are different. I know alot of us started the martial arts to defend ourselves, I have been doing karate for 25 years now, and realisticially I have only had to use it twice, thank god.

I don't believe karate, or any other martial art, is for everyone, but I do believe there is something for everyone in karate.

hope this hasn't muddied the waters too much!