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Post by Karate Resource on Jul 29, 2004 13:37:38 GMT
RDKI wrote:
If anybody would like to chat about or gain information on this topic , give me a shout.
Martyn Harris
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Post by Karate Resource on Jul 29, 2004 13:38:05 GMT
Searcher1 wrote:
Hi Folks
Genuine question:
Is there a difference between Okinawan and Japanese arts?
Now, there's a gut reaction answer and there's a real answer, so at what point do these become exclusive and at what point do the two converge?
Talk to me.
John
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Post by Karate Resource on Jul 29, 2004 13:38:21 GMT
RDKI wrote:
Hiya John How are you?
I definitely feel that Okinawan and Japanese styles have (or at least had) a fundamental difference in approach. The Okinawan approach being far less regimented than the militarised, univeristy orientated japanese systems.
Hence the fact that styles such as Shorin Ryu, Uechi Ryu, Ryukyu Kempo etc were and are not particularly popular on the Japanese mainland.
I feel that Okinawa has its own "take" on Karate and its own unigue feel. In the same way that, Wales, while being a member of the UK, has its own distinctive language, culture and outlook on life, so does Okinawa and this is (or at least was) transmitted through karate instruction.
That said, it was always a dream of mine to go on a training "pilgrimage" to okinawa. However, I now feel that i would be sorely disappointed should this happen as karate is as commercial on Okinawa as it is on mainland japan and elsewhere.
All the very best, hope to see you soon.
Martyn
Just my own opinion
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Post by Karate Resource on Jul 29, 2004 13:38:42 GMT
Angela G wrote:
Hi
In my limited experience I would say that I feel differences often come down to Instructors rather than a style. I could set up a club tomorrow and call it Shotokan. If all the students that joined were white belts with no MA experience they would have no idea whether what I was doing was traditional Shotokan or not!Whatever I told them they would believe. If I was to do something that actually resembled TKD but told them it was Shotokan they would still be telling their friends and family that they were doing 'Shotokan', it's only if someone with more MA experience came in that they would point out that what we were doing was more like TKD.
In the same vein Okinawan MAs are often said to have more original Bunkai etc than Japanese arts such as Shotokan... well we do Bunkai, so who is to say that what we do is or is not Shotokan. Whether or not Bunkai is taught is down to the instructor's own personal bias.
There's a lot of snobbery in the MA with so many styles putting down other styles to make themselves feel superior about their chosen art. In the same way there is even snobbery from club to club within the same styles. 'They do A and B and have abandoned C so what they do is not TRUE Shotokan, WE do TRUE Shotokan." Well go down to all the clubs in your town and I'm willing to bet you won't find two styles exactly the same!
At the end of the day though there's only so many ways to use one human body to hit another human body.
AG
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Post by Karate Resource on Jul 29, 2004 13:39:00 GMT
RDKI wrote: Very true, and very well put too!  Martyn |
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Post by dclark on Jul 29, 2004 15:30:25 GMT
Not sure what direction the question is directed. Japanese martial arts are very different from the Okinawan. Japanese arts such as Kendo, akijutsu and so on have a very different foundation and direction than karate, or the Okinawan schools of martial arts. Japanese Karate, or Shotokan, has roots in the Okinawa martial arts, but much of it was blended into a Japanese pov. So while some there are common threads among all, there are vast differences in the direction each took, and at different times. Two very good books come to mind that describe the path of Shotokan, Randall Hassels and Harry Cooks have both written quite good histories on Shotokan. Randall is from more of an American pov, while Harry provides more or a world view, or at least included Europe in the story.
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Post by shotopants on Jul 31, 2004 12:17:52 GMT
Is there any real difference between ANY martial art?
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Post by Aefibird on Aug 3, 2004 23:36:14 GMT
Is there any real difference between ANY martial art? Yes, especially between striking styles (such as karate, TKD, Muay Thai etc) and grappling styles (such as JuJutsu, Brazillian JuJitsu, Judo, wrestling etc). However, some of the differences that certain styles like to exaggerate as being a particular unique feature of 'their' style can usually be found in other styles if you dig hard enough and have the time and patience to search out and learn about other martial arts. There are less differences between most martial arts, though, than martial artists would like to believe. Every martial artist thinks that his or her chosen style is the best thing since sliced bread - or else, why would they continue to train in it. Most martial artists don't like to be reminded that what they train in in their particular system is probably in several other systems as well, and isn't probably anything that unique. For example, how many people on here would be up in arms if I said emphatically that Karate is just TaeKwonDo under a different name? You'd all be rushing to point out the differences between the styles (and probably saying that karate is miles better than KTD with it too). If I went to a TKD forum and said that TKD is a Karate rip-off then they'd be up in arms about it too. Personal feeling has a lot to do with how we see the differences between martial arts. Yes, there are differences, but (as AngelaG rightly said) " At the end of the day though there's only so many ways to use one human body to hit another human body." |
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Post by AngelaG on Aug 4, 2004 8:29:08 GMT
Hey, I've lost count of the number of times I've been told I don't do 'proper Shotokan' because we do bunkai.
Snobbery is rife in the Martial Arts, and everyone else seems to know best, even if they have never trained in that style.
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Post by Aefibird on Aug 4, 2004 11:54:00 GMT
Well, I've stopped caring what anyone thinks about my style of martial arts and whether or not I do 'proper' Shotokan or not. My instructor has trained in other styles of martial arts and has dan grades or equivalent in several, so he incorporates aspects of other styles into our Shotokan training. He even teaches our higher grades kata from other karate styles! Shock! Horror! That's not 'proper' Shotokan!! Learning a Shorin-Ryu kata! Training in Judo throws! Oh no, the world will come to an end... (etc etc etc)...  To be honest, if Funakoshi Sensei arose from the dead and started training again it's be a dead cert that someone would tell him he didn't do 'proper' Shotokan...  Anyway, what's wrong with doing bunkai, that's what I wanna know! lol |
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Post by RDKI on Aug 4, 2004 14:00:32 GMT
Those who mock, or criticise people for looking more deeply into their art are not snobs Angela, they are idiots! Bunkai IS kata - kata IS bunkai and this IS karate - no matter what style!
They train with blind faith in "sensei-san" and do what they are told with no question as to why. These people accept "repeat more, train hadrer" as To them, kata trains muscles and wins tournaments - nothing else. They do not see the self defence and fighting applications of kata as they are not shown them. They are not shown them because THEIR sensei's don't know.
They do not understand the art that they do, some for many years, and stubbornly rufuse to to take on board the plethora of excellent information regarding bunkai, kyusho, tuite etc because they do not want to admit that what they do is not as effective as it could be and this get right up my nose to be honest (as if you never guessed ;D)
They think that the world is flat and that evolution is a nightclub!
Ahhh - that's better. Calm now.
Rachel, regarding your post.
When you have trained, or at least gained experience in a number of different arts/teachers you are amazed not by how different they are but buy how similar.
You mention that karate is different to, say, judo. However, kata contain shoulder/hip throws (heian godan/empi in Shotokan) and if you do kata nijushihom there is an almost perfect "aikido" irimi nage (entering throw). There is the tuite (grappling applications) similar if not identical to locks found in arts like aikido/jujutsu etc too.
This isn't a criticism, but it does go back to my earlier post that you will not recognise these if you have never been exposed to them.
;D
All the best guys
M
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Post by Aefibird on Aug 5, 2004 23:09:21 GMT
Yes, I KNOW that the martial arts are very similar. What I was trying to do was point out that there are some differences between striking and grappling martial arts. For example, although there are throws and sweeps and joint locks in karate, there is an unlikely event of me going to a Judo class tomorrow and training in how to do a mawashi-geri... Also, my point was that some people cannot recognise good martial arts if it came up and bit them on the bum. Just because my instructor teaches us aspects from other martial arts (and yes, I KNOW that karate isn't all about punching and kicking - there are other elements in there as well. Sensei just adds to those elemnts) doesn't mean that what we're doing isn't a 'proper' martial art. It doesn't mean that suddenly learning a kata from another style means that I've suddenly stopped being a Shotokan Karateka. It just means that a lot of people in the martial arts world need to get out of their own little "my way is the best" type of thinking and accept that there's less differences between martial arts than most people think (which is actually the point I was making in my earlier post... ). |
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Post by shadowplay on Oct 10, 2004 14:53:53 GMT
I wonder if anyone can help me please? I am training for my 3rd Kyu, this requires that I fulfil a teaching requirement with lower grades, i am therefore really eager to get as much information as i can on how to take a good class and the various stages a class is made up of eg. warm up/stretching/main content, i would welcome any suggestions of websites/books and any experiential advice that i can get,
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thingy
KR Green Belt
Posts: 150
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Post by thingy on Oct 11, 2004 14:35:26 GMT
I wonder if anyone can help me please? I am training for my 3rd Kyu, this requires that I fulfil a teaching requirement with lower grades, i am therefore really eager to get as much information as i can on how to take a good class and the various stages a class is made up of eg. warm up/stretching/main content, i would welcome any suggestions of websites/books and any experiential advice that i can get, Experiential is a great word. I salute you on it's use. I've started writing about this, and it's turned into a big old waffle. Hopefully it'll be of a little bit of use, it's pretty basic stuff but it does talk abut a few common holes which people fall into when they first start teaching.... How to structure a class - just think about how your teacher runs a lesson. You'll develop your own style in time but there's nothing wrong in nicking ideas off of others. Even the most experienced instructors steal ideas so there's certainly no harm in someone new to teaching doing the same. Plan your lesson down to the finest level of detail if you want, it doesn't matter. Work out the entire warm up if you want. Preparation is no bad thing but do be open to the fact you may have to change your plans. If you've decided to have the class doing 25-a-side battle royales (whatever that means) and only 3 people turn up to your class, you'll have to might slight adjustments somewhere. When you're doing the warm up, a common mistake people make is to join in with everything and then realise you're no good at doing x amounts of star jumps (for example) and calling out at the same time, and you run out of breath. This is a funny one to watch because it makes you think "I remember doing that". I think everyone who's taught a warm up must have done this. You don't have to join in with everything - keeping the class going is more important than you proving you can do the exercises too. If you find yourself freezing - you stand there and see a room of people waiting for you to say something, and you can't think of what to do....Just pick an exercise, get them to do some press ups or a kata or something, start them off and there you have a bit of thinking time. It may not make for the best lesson in the world ever but it will buy you some time. Don't feel the need to make the lesson too exciting by changing the excercise/technique every 3 seconds, thinking the students must be bored because they've done the same thing more than once (exaggerating). People are happy to do the same thing for a while, it's good for them to do the same thing for a while, and if you keep changing the technique you'll soon run out of ideas. It's easy to think that going through your normal basic lesson - your students must be bored. Remember, people like kata. You like kata and you don't get bored doing them. Yes, you. You there. It's not impossible that other people think like that. |
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Post by RDKI on Oct 11, 2004 20:43:44 GMT
That is excellent advice! ;D You would do well to take that on board Shadowplay. Your teaching style will mirror your karate and will change and evolve with experience. The idea behind bringing in the teaching requirement is that if you get to dan grade you will have a bit of teaching experience behind you that will help you to A Help your instructor out or B Start you own class/club and spread his FANTASTIC teachings ;D ;D ;D |
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