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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 16:00:23 GMT
haha. thanks for the welcome.
i spent 3 1/2 years doing kyokushinkai in my early teens, some 20 years ago. i only persisted there so long because the sparring was really rough, but full contact without face punches is not realistic, and so i eventually graduated into Muay Thai for several more years. i have trained this and SPM on and off, and unoffically with friends ever since.
the mysterious moves may be hidden or contained in sequences such as kata, but i maintain time spent training kata will be of little or no use to you in a real fight, and may actually contribute to hesitation or neurological confusion during the fight.
your time would be better spent engaging opponents realistically than doing forms or kata if your goal is combat effectiveness.
you are of course free to believe whatever you want.
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 16:04:39 GMT
your time would be better spent engaging opponents realistically than doing forms or kata if your goal is combat effectiveness. you are of course free to believe whatever you want. What do you mean by realistic? Actually going out and getting into real fights, that can be pretty dangerous. How do you feel about shadow boxing? |
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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 16:21:51 GMT
by realistic i mean a moving non-compliant opponent, and realistic levels of contact in sparring. for example Muay Thai style sparring, Judo combat etc.
i'm not saying anything new here people, this conversation has been going on since UFC 1&2 ushered in the 21st century evolution of Martial Arts and proved this to be the case fairly decisively. anyone remember Fred Ettish's "absolute confidence in his system" and all the good that did him in comparison to styles and fighters who trained realistically?
shadow boxing, particularly in front of the mirror is good for speed & technique perfection in combos. but there's little in (shadow) boxing derived from any kata i've ever seen?
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 16:34:05 GMT
Right, not actually that realistic then, judo I’ve seen Thai I have done, kata provides me with a deeper mental approach to my art, and, when done properly deepen ones understanding and helps one develop techniques.
After all depending on which code you are following then there are no spinning back fists or elbows to the head allowed.
The important thing is not to neglect any part of an art to be a competent fighter, some people reduce kata down to a mere performance, then I have to agree, it isn’t much good to anybody.
I mention shadow boxing as it is often the time for a practitioner to practice putting together 1,2,4 even 7 punch combinations together, with the correct footwork and body position.
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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 16:48:15 GMT
how can it be anything other than a performance?
no opposition, punching air etc? any competent pro dancer could be taught and perform a kata well within a week or two with no prior experience of the art.
does this mean they'd be good at fighting?
performing the same moves over and over may give you a better understanding of the technique, but if the techniques likely wont work in practice, is this the best use of your time?
i notice a lot of the forum members here whinging about fitness training in classes? IMO this is far more relevant to combat than kata are.
i stress that if combat is not your primary concern then i have no issue with spending your time doing whatever you want to.
just dont delude yourselves that kata will make you a significantly better fighter. fighting or as close to it as possible is the only thing that will efficiently do that.
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 17:04:22 GMT
So what do you do when you are too old to fight?
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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 17:14:30 GMT
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 17:17:32 GMT
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Post by Andy on Nov 23, 2005 17:18:19 GMT
Oh for goodness sake.
Hands up if you've never seen a thread go down this route before.
Darkstar.
Why concern yourself with what others do, when, if you are serious about MA, you should be focussed on your own training.
Sorry, I close the door on MA evangelists.
Come back and tell me about it when you've been in a fight, cos if you had, you wouldn't type that drivel.
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 17:24:42 GMT
Andy get off the fence, say whats on your mind  |
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Post by Andy on Nov 23, 2005 17:29:55 GMT
Your toes would curl, and babies would cry if I said whats on my mind.
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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 17:30:08 GMT
Oh for goodness sake. Hands up if you've never seen a thread go down this route before. Darkstar. Why concern yourself with what others do, when, if you are serious about MA, you should be focussed on your own training. Sorry, I close the door on MA evangelists. Come back and tell me about it when you've been in a fight, cos if you had, you wouldn't type that drivel. wtf?!! with respect "Andy" you know nothing of me. i wouldnt mind betting i've been in significantly more than you. it would be reasonable odds. except i suppose youre some hardened pit fighter or something are you? lol. listen, i just responded to a thread with an opinion and elaborated on my own expereinces and opinions when asked to? ...may i enquire what the purpose if this forum is, if not for open minded discussions? i'm not evangelising, i'm simply stating my opinion on this. and yes i have seen threads like this. and may i also enquire about the apparent hostility towards me from yourself Andy? if you want to turn it from abstract discussion to personal attacks, please feel free.  i'll just laugh at you. |
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Post by random on Nov 23, 2005 17:30:22 GMT
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Post by AngelaG on Nov 23, 2005 17:31:05 GMT
To be honest I see a link to yet another thread on yet another forum discussing the same line of conversation as somewhat irrelevant (and often as not the same old names). In every discussion I've ever seen on this you will get the pro-kata and the anti-kata and never the twain will meet. IMO you're better off just letting the pro-kata people discuss the various aspects of kata that they want to and concentrating on the threads that interest you and your training. For example people that interrupt a thread on principles of kata with a statement that they think kata is useless blah blah blah, are extremely rude. People wouldn't tend to do that in a verbal conversation so why does it become ok to do it online? Personally I think people that do not see the pros of kata have missed the point, either because they've never done it or because they've been taught be someone that didn't understand it. Kata as a whole is far more than performance of repeated patterns. |
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Post by darkstar on Nov 23, 2005 17:31:41 GMT
Your toes would curl, and babies would cry if I said whats on my mind. c'mon then big boy, come sort me out with your cutting wit and superior perception. |
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