Olympics

[AngelaG]

Would it be beneficial for karate to be in the Olympics? What are the reasons for your answer?

Angela

[RDKI]

I think that Olympic inclusion would be the worst thing ever to happen for karate. It would become like judo, which to me used to be an effective martial art but has descended into scrappy wrestling with little or none of the combat effectiveness it once undoubtedly had - Tae Kwon Do also just looks like a butt-kicking compettion with no hand technqies whatsoever and has, i believe been chucked out (good!)

And if ANYONE EVER calls me a "KARATE PLAYER"
do so at your own risk.

[charmin]

Beneficial to what?

[thingy]

I vote no.

I remember excitedly sitting down to watch TKD at the Seoul olympics. Then, a little while later I remember wondering quite what it was I just watched. Very strange.

I'm glad that TKD has been dropped, it has enough trouble from being sucked into the world of sport as it is, without any "help" from the Olympics.

[demonwarrior]

charmin said:

Beneficial to what?

Surely that's the point, that it is open to interpretation? If you like sports karate then you may feel it would be beneficial. If you think that it is important to karate to get more subscribers then you may think it's beneficial. If you think the traditional or self-defence aspects are important then you may think it's bad if karate gets in the olympics.

[Aefibird]

I don't agree with Karate becoming an Olympic Sport.

I think it would spoil it and it would end up going the way of TKD (which is now basically the laughing-stock of the MA community) and Judo (a once-good MA that is now just rolling about in a gi).

Sport karate isn't everyone's cup of tea but some people do like it. That's fair enough - however, I think that if Karate became an Olympic Sport then every Karate club would be "tarred with the same brush". It may draw more people into karate, but those people are most likely to want Sport/Olympic karate, rather than traditional karate. So, they're gonna join a Sport club, which may even force some traditional clubs out of business - or convice some school owners to jump on the Olympic Karate 'bandwagon'.

I say that if they want to have martial arts in the Olympics then they should ditch Judo, TKD, Boxing and Wrestling and just hold a mass all-styles brawl...
That'd certainly get the viewing figures up! lol

[AngelaG]

I have to say that having watched a couple of Olympic TKD matches I was appalled by the charade that was going on. The hands hanging down the side whilst they do some twizzly kick to the head. I would hate to think that something like that came the norm in karate (although some clubs are already there I guess).

[charmin]

Odds are that it would end up going the same way as TKD, but I don't like how everybody is referring to Judo post-olympics. I "play" judo but I train it with SD in mind, and I don't perform too badly. The only time that lets me down is when I lose to being pinned, as pinning isn't a huge concern in SD.

I suppose it would be detrimental to real karate. Karate hardly needs more awareness, as it is TKD schools are still calling themselves "Karate" schools for the recognition. I think it would cause a decrease in the number of decent, SD based schools, but at the same time a decrease in the number of schools teaching utter bollocks because there would be more pressure on both sets of schools for sport results.

[Sionnagh]

It is my understanding that the rules of Olympic TKD award points for kicks and give bugg... er.. not much for hand techniques. This being the case then explains why the competitors were always going for flashy kicks and leaving the hands out of it.

In a way it's not so different to watching a karate sparring match and saying "Well if it was me I'd take out a knee because he's not even defending low kicks. Then it'd be all over and he'd be history".

Rules of the game etc etc?


Mick

[thingy]

Sionnagh said:

It is my understanding that the rules of Olympic TKD award points for kicks and give bugg... er.. not much for hand techniques. This being the case then explains why the competitors were always going for flashy kicks and leaving the hands out of it.

In a way it's not so different to watching a karate sparring match and saying "Well if it was me I'd take out a knee because he's not even defending low kicks. Then it'd be all over and he'd be history".

Rules of the game etc etc?


Mick

Quite right. The rules used in olympic TKD has a no hands to the head rule, they are allowed to the body. Also, as it is deemed a full contact spar, to score a point you must hit the opponent hard enough that there is a visible reaction (i'm not quite sure how they measure the reaction). The kicks are harder than the hands and so you're much more likely to score with a kick. As Mick says, they're working to the rules, which anyone participating in a sport activity must do.

There are different strands of TKD with different competition rules.

I remember sparring with a WTF Tae Kwon-Doist, and he told me that the kicks are considered too powerful to block, they feared having their arms broken. I get the feeling that this thinking goes some way to why the hands are just hanging loose at the sides.

[RDKI]

It's still crap to watch and poor in terms of self defence - I'd hate karate to go down that road.

[AngelaG]

I am aware of the rules of TKD, and I have been told before that is the reason they jump around with their hands dangling down by the sides, but, if anything, it reinforces my belief that karate should not go in the Olympics. Modern TKD, on the whole, is too rule driven; too sports oriented. I'm sure there are a few clubs that still practice SD aspects of TKD, but I would also reckon these are rarer than hens teeth. (Although how many sports TKD dojang still claim SD apects is probably a higher number).

The hands can be a formidable weapon, and to not even raise a guard is ridiculous (in my opinion). They are sparring with a lot of padding anyway, so if they can supposedly get kicked in the face with power, but are scared to get their arms hurt... hmm? I know which one I would prefer to sacrifice, and the added bonus? They would also be able to stop the opponent scoring a point.

Now I don't want to start a style war, and I never assume that this is what all TKD dojang are doing, so all I am saying is that what I saw in the Olympics did not impress me, and I sincerely hope karate does not go the same way.

Angela

[thingy]

RDKI said:

It's still crap to watch and poor in terms of self defence - I'd hate karate to go down that road.

Yes, I agree.

I suspect the lack of hands to the head rule is because the hands and feet are bare, and they didn't want it to turn into a "bare knuckle punching each other in the head until one person is knocked out" affair. But, you know, it might not be because of that.

Angela, if you're aware of the rules of TKD then you'll know that what you see in the Olympics is WTF style. The ITF style clubs do hold a guard, do allow hand techniques to the head and spar semi-contact. So as a brief answer to the "I never assume that this is what all TKD dojang are doing" comment, they're not. However that of course is not to say that the ITF styles aren't competition orientated.

AngelaG said:

I'm sure there are a few clubs that still practice SD aspects of TKD, but I would also reckon these are rarer than hens teeth. (Although how many sports TKD dojang still claim SD apects is probably a higher number).

This is an interesting point and one that I think about a fair amount, I don't believe I've ever seen a martial arts club not have SD as one of the points on the things you can gain from joining, along with of course "Boost your self-confidence". I wonder how many clubs could legitimately say they do teach self defense.

At any club you learn aspects of self defence, even if its just to the point that you learn how to hit harder than you could before, or learn to hit without causing yourself as much injury as you may have caused yourself before, and so I suppose to that extent you could argue that nobody is as such, falsely advertising. Whether anyone ought to be making such an argument is another thing though.

[AngelaG]

Ah sorry, I need to clarify my post. I meant I am aware of the rules of Olympic TKD pertaining to the reasons why they keep their arms down etc. I asked around after watching it on the Olympics, because I felt slightly bemused by what I had seen. I am in no way a TKD expert!

[AngelaG]

news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/olympics_2012/4664733.stm