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Post by AngelaG on Jun 16, 2005 18:49:39 GMT
I was pondering the martial arts on my way into work today. I was thinking of the easy way we describe bunkai at my dojo, and how we'll casually describe ripping someone's head off. How as karateka we try to have better moral codes and characters and yet we learn ways to kill with our bare hands. I abhor violence and yet I love my karate. Paradox?
Do you think we actually link to the violence behind the karate? Do you think you've got what it takes to ever use the most lethal moves if necessary? Do you think your character has changed for the better or worse since taking on your martial art?
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Post by bunkaiseeker on Jun 19, 2005 20:17:01 GMT
I think most people have just a big mouth. Very few try to envision the actual effects of a successful blow - blood dripping, maybe some broken bone sticking out somewhere...
I know that I could not do eye pokes. It's just so disgusting to even imagine it. I think I wouldn't sweat over stuff like stepping on someone's instep hard enough to break bones in his foot but then you'd usually never really see the result because it would be hidden by the shoe.
When I'm really angry - and I typically get angry when I feel threatened - I could see myself kicking someone when they are already down and not stopping. Which is a bad thing legally and you can very easily kill a person that way (think ruptured liver or similar). I don't think I could poke someone's eyes out even then, though.
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Post by AngelaG on Jun 22, 2005 15:05:24 GMT
I'm not sure I could ever fish hook, or poke my fingers up someone's nose. **Gross!** But then again I guess you never know until you are in a bad situation.
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Post by Aefibird on Jun 23, 2005 16:55:16 GMT
When I'm really angry - and I typically get angry when I feel threatened - I could see myself kicking someone when they are already down and not stopping. Which is a bad thing legally and you can very easily kill a person that way (think ruptured liver or similar). That's one of the things that worries me a bit too. I'm pretty slow to get angry but once I do I have a very violent temper. I could easily imagine myself getting wound up if I got in a SD situation and not stopping until the person was seriously hurt or worse. I got close to being like that once in the dojo when I was a lower kyu grade. There was a person who had been riling me (knocking my technique and then supposedly 'correcting' me) and winding me up all lesson and I was at boiling point. We ended up paired up at the end for some free sparring (and I mean free - it was an anything goes session) and I had to stop half way through and ask Sensei if I could sit out. I gave him a right pounding because I was so angry with him but I managed to stop myself from going too far. Maybe if it had been a real SD situation I wouldn't have been able to stop and would have carried on.  |
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Post by Andy on Jun 25, 2005 16:53:51 GMT
For me, a large portion of my life has been about violence in one form or another.
Training MA, has helped me to understand what violence constitutes, adding a degree of rationalism to what might otherwise be a random experience.
My character has definitely changed for the better through MA, but I'm in some ways more potentially dangerous as a result.
Mostly to myself.
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Post by Aefibird on Jun 26, 2005 8:38:17 GMT
but I'm in some ways more potentially dangerous as a result. Mostly to myself. Yeah, I know what you mean about that. I'm so much of a hazard to myself that I should come with a government health warning... |
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Post by Sasori Te on Jun 30, 2005 2:27:18 GMT
What a wonderful topic Angela. I brought up this very subject on KF a couple of days ago in response to a post. Patrick removed my post because he didn't like the way it was worded. I don't think I'll be returning there anytime soon. Too many kiddies playing at being clansdestine ninja stealth warriors ...... Sorry for that rant.
Anyway, I was a soldier for the better part of ten years. I was in an Army infantry division during the initial middle east action in 1990-91. I posed the question of whether all of these self-proclaimed "warriors" had ever considered the ramifications of taking someone's life. Even if they are a bad person trying to maim or kill you it is still a terrible burden to carry around for the rest of your life. That is providing that you are not a sociopath and have some sort of conscience. Sorry, I thought I'd put a bit of a different spin on what you were asking about.
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Post by AngelaG on Jun 30, 2005 10:17:42 GMT
What a wonderful topic Angela. I brought up this very subject on KF a couple of days ago in response to a post. Patrick removed my post because he didn't like the way it was worded. I don't think I'll be returning there anytime soon. Too many kiddies playing at being clansdestine ninja stealth warriors ...... Sorry for that rant. It's ok. I've been a victim of the overenthusiastic editing on there myself. Apparently we are not allowed to disagree in any way with anyone, which kind of makes the whole idea of a discussion forum a bit moot! |
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Post by Andy on Jun 30, 2005 15:21:40 GMT
Anyway, I was a soldier for the better part of ten years. I was in an Army infantry division during the initial middle east action in 1990-91. I posed the question of whether all of these self-proclaimed "warriors" had ever considered the ramifications of taking someone's life. Even if they are a bad person trying to maim or kill you it is still a terrible burden to carry around for the rest of your life. That is providing that you are not a sociopath and have some sort of conscience. Sorry, I thought I'd put a bit of a different spin on what you were asking about. There's one guy I can think of in particular that comes to mind that I used to talk to on MA forums. One of Ed Parkers original students. He was completely wracked/wrecked by guilt because he killed someone. True reality is always sobering. |
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Post by malcolmtent on Jul 18, 2005 17:22:59 GMT
Well in the small amounts of real fights i've had you find yourself caring a lot less about your attackers well-being than you'd expect.
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Post by jones on Jul 18, 2005 23:45:04 GMT
This may be a stupid question but what is Bunkai?
I read something once by Geoff Thompson that said that real fights only last 3 secs. If I ever feel threatened I would just smack the guy in the mouth befre he got the chance to hit me.
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 18, 2005 23:49:28 GMT
This may be a stupid question but what is Bunkai? I read something once by Geoff Thompson that said that real fights only last 3 secs. If I ever feel threatened I would just smack the guy in the mouth befre he got the chance to hit me. Bunkai is the taking apart of kata or forms to find the applications and techniques within. Kata are a database of self-defence techniques. Pre-emptive striking is an interesting concept. Sometimes if a fight is inevitable it would seem a good idea to strike first, take the initiative and hopefully safe yourself any injuries. However it would be very hard to then prove that you were not the aggressor. Also once you hit out, that's it the fight has started - the chance for trying to take control of the situation in a pacifying manner (i.e talking) has gone. |
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Post by jones on Jul 19, 2005 0:07:09 GMT
I see what you are saying. But what is the alternative? I go out twice a week to clubs and see fights all the time. The person who takes the initiative and strikes with aggression and force first is the person that wins. I would not risk waiting for an attack. Even if it led to me getting prosecuted. It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.
Also, I remember a time when my mate got into a fight. This black guy started giving him hassle outside the takeaway. My mate put his hands out in a defencive manner and started backing off. The black guy started stalking him and squaring up. My friend kept saying that he didn't want any trouble but the guy was adamant. It looked like my friend was innocent as he was walking away with his hands up defensively. Then when the black guy got too close he punched him full power in the face. The guy fell face down into the pavement. I still remember the noise of his face hitting the concrete. He was completeyl out cold. We then just walked away and heard nothing more of it.
Anyway, my point is that my friend looked innocent and passive and, more importantly, the victim until the very last second when he hit out. I honestly think he could have proven that he didn't want any trouble. The witnesses there new he was the innocent one and any CCTV footage would show how he was not the aggressor and that he was trying to back off.
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 19, 2005 0:17:18 GMT
I agree, if it looks like something is definitely going to kick off then it may be a lot better to throw the first technique and have the upper hand, rather than starting with a defensive move and then trying to gain the upper hand. I was just pointing out that both ways have their pros and cons. Like you said a passive stance, and a lot of verbal calming down first would hopefully mean that you have witnesses to say that you did not start the confrontation.
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