|
|
Post by Aefibird on Jun 26, 2005 8:45:44 GMT
What are your views on the belt and grading system that we have in karate?
Do you think there are too many kyu grades? Too few? About right? What about belt colours? Would it be better to just have white and black or even to do away with the belt system altogether? Or do the various colours serve a good purpose?
|
|
|
|
Post by bunkaiseeker on Jun 27, 2005 16:29:51 GMT
Personally, I find belts a great motivational tool, but I think I could do with 5 kyu grades instead of 10. As it takes about 7 years to get to shodan in our org that would be a damn long time to go with no in-between grades/belts/outward signs of achievement.
What I don't like are schools or seminars where they only let you do your next grading kata for your belt level. That's too strict and boring in my view and I can understand if people are frustrated with the belt system for that reason. Eg. in our school you learn all of the heian katas pretty quickly (usually people know them all by the time they hit orange belt) so you have a bit of variety in training. I actually learned bassai dai at the seminar where I graded for green belt and, years later, it's still my best high-level kata.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sasori Te on Jun 30, 2005 2:32:21 GMT
I personally don't care for the present ranking system. Having said that, I am also not one that needs a pat on the back to keep me going. I train in the martial arts for the self-discipline that it takes as well as the self-defense aspects. If I absolutely had to choose some sort of belt system I would choose the old white, brown, black system.
|
|
|
|
Post by Andy on Jun 30, 2005 15:34:52 GMT
Seemingly simple, yet actually complex subject.
Looking at personal development, as if you can break it down into exams which you pass, then put a certificate in a drawer is wrong in my book.
If someone is running huge classes, and needs a simple way of grouping people into capability, then a belt system is just one way to do it. It's not the only way, and it's not the best way IMO.
e.g. I was at a seminar a couple of years ago, and the fellow running it asked everyone to divide into three groups of experience; Low, Medium & High.
You could choose to focus on what you wanted, be it basics, intermediary or advanced technique.
Ego of course came into play, and it was nice to see this particular instructor spending more time with the group self-deemed low experience, rather than those who believed they had less to learn. ;
|
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Jul 1, 2005 21:36:39 GMT
I like that "Low, Medium, High" categorisation, especailly seen as the students were asked to categorise themselves, rather than the division being based on belt rank or whatever.
|
|
|
|
Post by AngelaG on Jul 2, 2005 9:49:43 GMT
I like that "Low, Medium, High" categorisation, especailly seen as the students were asked to categorise themselves, rather than the division being based on belt rank or whatever. It's all very well to try and categorise like that but one has to have enough understanding of what they are doing before they can judge their own progress and status. As a beginner to karate one won't have enough understanding and depth of knowledge in their karate to be able to see what they are doing wrong and why. In that case you'd get the black belts in the low group and the early kyu grades in the high groups! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Andy on Jul 2, 2005 13:14:43 GMT
Not sure I'm with you there Angela. If you have no understanding, you are a beginner with a low level of experience. If you have a high level of experience, you are no longer a beginner. There are then those who fall in between. Yes, as you keep going, you learn to be self correcting to a degree. Maybe the way it should be, in an idealistic non egotistical kind of way? Anyone with a good deal of experience in MA should appreciate the value of repeating basics, especially if they are being overseen by someone with a good eye for detail?  The seminar I was talking about was a Wing Chun one (same guy as runs AEFbirds WC group). The organisation uses no belts whatsoever. Thing is, as we all know, you can have all your riffs together one day, and be coming apart at the seams the next. You're only true measure of ability is manifested in comparison to others. A peice of coloured cloth might indicate what you should be able to do, but should never be taken as an absolute measure. The belt system was only introduced into Karate in 1950 I believe, by Jigaro Kano, but somehow people managed to learn and teach MA without belts for centuries before that. Circa 1998, I had a couple of students leave my class without explanation. They were very, very good. Always top marks in any grading. I later found out, it was because they felt they should be given higher belts than their class mates, because they were inarguably better. On a previous occasion, I was accosted by a childs father after class, who felt that after two years training (the kid was a very immature 7year old), his kid should be a Black Belt (It takes around 12 years to Black Belt in that style). I asked him who the belt was for. His son or himself. Never saw them again thankfully. I guess what I'm getting at, is the egotistical and statistical attachement people place on ranks and priviledges. I lost my BB somewhere seven years ago. It took 13 years to get it, but I don't miss it, and even though I'm periodically dragged out of retirement to teach seminars, I never wear a belt. Knowledge and experience should speak for themselves. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else by taking that stance, as it's just my way. I believe that many students aspire to be teachers, and many teachers aspire to be students, so it's a circular journey, rather than a linear one. Anyways, I'll stop rambling now, put my teeth back in, and go eat my Gruel and Jello.  |
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Jul 2, 2005 17:44:52 GMT
Thing is, as we all know, you can have all your riffs together one day, and be coming apart at the seams the next. Yeah, I know that feeling well! I was 'on form' today in training but I'll be a wobbly, uncoordinated muppet come Monday... The belt system was only introduced into Karate in 1950 I believe, by Jigaro Kano, I thought it was Jigaro Kano who was the founder of Judo not Karate? Wasn't the belt system introduced into Karate after it was comped from Kano's sucessful introduction of it into Judo? I'm probably wrong on that one, though... |
|
|
|
Post by Andy on Jul 3, 2005 2:21:09 GMT
Thing is, as we all know, you can have all your riffs together one day, and be coming apart at the seams the next. Yeah, I know that feeling well! I was 'on form' today in training but I'll be a wobbly, uncoordinated muppet come Monday... The belt system was only introduced into Karate in 1950 I believe, by Jigaro Kano, I thought it was Jigaro Kano who was the founder of Judo not Karate? Wasn't the belt system introduced into Karate after it was comped from Kano's sucessful introduction of it into Judo? I'm probably wrong on that one, though... Yah, Karate took it from JK/Judo as far as I know. Poor wording on my part. Apologies. I think it came from sashes awarded for swimming if memory serves. |
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Jul 3, 2005 16:40:55 GMT
Yes, it is derived from swimming sashes. From front crawl to front kicks... |
|
|
|
Post by Sionnagh on Jul 8, 2005 2:05:54 GMT
Jigoro Kano was the founder of Judo and devised what has become the modern dogi from the traditional kimono. The belt system was also devised to allow instructors to be able to tell at a glance the level of a student, which is useful in a mass teaching environment. Arguably the colours were introduced by a westerner. One of the requirements for having Karate-do accepted by the Dai Nippon Butokukai was a ranking system and standard uniform. Funakoshi had spent some time with Kano and adopted the Judo model to satisfy this requirement. This was around the beginning of the 20th century. Prior to that karate did not exist, the art of the day was most often generically referred to simply as "te" and specifically by the name of the master. Mick |
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Aug 9, 2005 23:01:44 GMT
Does anyone here train in a system which grades students but doesn't wear belts?
I train in both belt and no-belt systems and I'm getting more and more to really prefer the no-belt way of training.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Precision on Aug 10, 2005 11:21:54 GMT
Does anyone here train in a system which grades students but doesn't wear belts? I train in both belt and no-belt systems and I'm getting more and more to really prefer the no-belt way of training. Personally, having been a brown belt, then a green belt and a white belt. I honestly don't care about the belt at all, or particularly the grading, the only benefit of the gradings are that they allow you to progress to the next level of instruction. What matters is understanding. |
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Aug 10, 2005 21:09:21 GMT
the only benefit of the gradings are that they allow you to progress to the next level of instruction. What matters is understanding. I totally agree. Knowledge and understanding is where it's at. I hate grading and see less and less benefits to it the more I think about it. It might work for some and be a great motivational tool, but I personally don't like it. I graded in Karate but swore to myself that when I trained in other systems I wouldn't grade I'd just train. Still, the gradings in those other systems were basically forced upon me - if I wanted to progress beyond white belt and learn new stuff then I had to grade.  That's partly why I love Wing Chun so much - no nasty gradings!! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by random on Aug 10, 2005 22:34:57 GMT
Although it is flawed at many levels I have to say that I like a few things about the belt system. I can pick a victim (sorry partner) and I can expect a certain level of competency because of the belt that they wear, and they me. This is let down by the student who has never graded but can throw every thing at you, including the kitchen sink.
I think the major flaw is that you sometimes have to move up to the next belt to receive the next level of enlightenment. For kids this can be a good motivational tool, and some people like to pursue that illusive black belt.
In a small intimate class, belts, their meaning and symbolism aren’t really necessary.
When I first started the belt and certificate was important, now I prefer to say I have some knowledge and some experience and let my karate speak for itself (sorry that sounds a bit macho BS but it isn’t meant to be).
|
|
