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Post by malcolmtent on Jul 19, 2005 15:49:19 GMT
Are there many? I remember seeing the higher grades in the karate class i briefly attended practicing some, but it didn't seem like they were doing it very well  From a judo point of view they seemed very awkward. Do lots of karate dojos include throws? Or is that a stupid question because karate is supposed to be about punching and kicking and blocking? |
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Post by Aefibird on Jul 19, 2005 18:12:56 GMT
Yes, karate is about punching and kicking and blocking, but it incorporates throws, sweeps, takedowns, chokes, joint locks, PP's etc etc as well. However, some karate dojo's do not teach any or all of the above (either through choice as they're a sport orientated dojo or because they simply don't know how to) but some do. The throws, sweeps, grappling etc is all there in kata, as long as it is studied carefully.
Some karateka just aren't that good at throws etc because they simply don't practice them or get the opportunity to practice them enough. It depends on the style of karate taught, the inclination and experience of the instructor and also the focus of the dojo. The experience of the students can be a factor too.
My own karate instructor has cross-trained in judo and jujutsu, as well as a little aikido, so he's into groundwork, so we train in it a lot more than other clubs I have atttended.
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 19, 2005 18:17:00 GMT
If you want to be great at throws do judo.  As Aefibird says, there are throws etc. there if you get the right instructor but obviously it's unlikely that you'll ever get as good as someone that trains in an art that deals with them as the main subject. That's why a lot of people advocate cross-training in an art that deals with groundwork. |
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Post by boris on Jul 19, 2005 23:37:39 GMT
If you want to be great at throws do judo. As Aefibird says, there are throws etc. there if you get the right instructor but obviously it's unlikely that you'll ever get as good as someone that trains in an art that deals with them as the main subject. That's why a lot of people advocate cross-training in an art that deals with groundwork. excellent point AngelaG. |
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Post by malcolmtent on Jul 20, 2005 9:15:29 GMT
That sounds like sound advice! So karate clubs don't do any randori like I would at my dojo? How about breakfalls?
I am thinking of doing a striking art, the options open to me are boxing and karate. Which should I take up? I have to do a lot of shifts at work and I don't have time or the money to do all three.
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 20, 2005 10:00:51 GMT
That sounds like sound advice! So karate clubs don't do any randori like I would at my dojo? How about breakfalls? I am thinking of doing a striking art, the options open to me are boxing and karate. Which should I take up? I have to do a lot of shifts at work and I don't have time or the money to do all three. As with anything in life, every club is different. Some clubs will do throws, some groundwork, some breakfalls. However as it is not a primary aspect of karate then some choose not to do it. As for what to choose to do - well that's a very personal choice. Go and sit in, or join in, a couple of lessons at your local clubs and see what floats your boat. Each will give a totally different experience. |
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Post by malcolmtent on Jul 20, 2005 11:18:24 GMT
Good call Angela.
I'll try boxing first then karate, and make my decision.
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Post by andym on Jul 20, 2005 11:23:47 GMT
If you try them both at least you can make an informed decision about which route you want to take.
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Post by Aefibird on Jul 20, 2005 21:16:56 GMT
That sounds like sound advice! So karate clubs don't do any randori like I would at my dojo? How about breakfalls? Some clubs train in breakfalls, we do at my dojo because we do quite a bit of ground work. Again, it just depends on the instructor and that particular club. I am thinking of doing a striking art, the options open to me are boxing and karate. Which should I take up? I have to do a lot of shifts at work and I don't have time or the money to do all three. Well, if you like traditional arts (which you probably do as you do Judo) then I'd go with Karate. It will 'fit' well with your Judo training - some aspects may even cross over. However, if you just want to train in a striking art just because you want to learn some striking then boxing would probably be better - no kata, no 'one-step' sparring, no kicking or other leg techniques. Not that there's anything wrong with any of those (I love all those aspects of karate), it's just that if you want a punching art then boxing is a great punching art. It just depends on whether you'd want to include all the 'extra's' that karate gives you as well as punching, such as kicking, kata, sweeps, weapons, step sparring, etc etc etc. Good luck with your decision! |
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Post by Sionnagh on Jul 21, 2005 13:09:06 GMT
It depends how you define them whether there are many or not. I would consider there to be only a few basic throws, but once you start adding variations and counting them as separate things... I do find it amazing (and a little scary) that some clubs teach sweeping yet don't teach falling. For us, the falling comes first. Not teaching how to fall before teaching how to do some sort of throw or takedown is a bit irresponsible IMO.  Mick |
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Post by malcolmtent on Jul 21, 2005 16:29:25 GMT
To be honest im thinking boxing. Every fight i've been in was at a punching/wrestling range. Never had a chance to kick.
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 21, 2005 20:33:31 GMT
To be honest im thinking boxing. Every fight i've been in was at a punching/wrestling range. Never had a chance to kick. So, you're close enough to punch, but not close enough to kick/knee? Aren't your legs longer than your arms? |
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Post by Sionnagh on Jul 26, 2005 12:35:47 GMT
Kicks can be useful for attacking legs/knees/groin. Kicking above the waist is probably not going to happen outside of dojo sparring. Unless someone is lying on the ground and you're kicking their head...  Back to throws, many clubs don't seem to practice them. Some even tell you there aren't any, and then carry on practicing with kata like Bassai or Empi (for the Shoto folk). Mick |
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Post by AngelaG on Jul 26, 2005 12:42:53 GMT
Ha. I had a classic quote today. Shotokan people don't do locks, throws or close in work. It makes what we do ju-jutsu. I never knew that. Imagine my surprise. |
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Post by Aefibird on Jul 26, 2005 14:44:56 GMT
Ha. I had a classic quote today. Shotokan people don't do locks, throws or close in work. It makes what we do ju-jutsu. I never knew that. Imagine my surprise. Really? Dang, must remember to tell my Sensei that tonight. He said we'd be working on throws in tonight's class. I'll have to cross out where it says "karate" on the club badge and write "jujutsu" instead.... |
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As Aefibird says, there are throws etc. there if you get the right instructor but obviously it's unlikely that you'll ever get as good as someone that trains in an art that deals with them as the main subject. That's why a lot of people advocate cross-training in an art that deals with groundwork.
