|
|
Post by Aefibird on Aug 9, 2005 22:27:45 GMT
How long did it take (or do you think it will take if you're a beginner) for you to be able to say that you "know" karate and that you would be able to use it?
Obviously, the answer is different for different people, but karate is generally one of the arts that takes longer to get to grips with in order to be SD proficient than, say, Krav Maga. Now, karate isn't just a SD art, it's much more than that but many people train in karate for the SD aspect?
So, when would YOU say that you feel you'd be able to use your karate knowledge?
Every scenario is different, but there does come a point where people feel more confident about what they're doing and the penny drops. So, when was it for you?
(hope that all made sense!)
|
|
|
|
Post by andym on Aug 10, 2005 8:21:27 GMT
I think I'm just getting to that stage now. If I got into trouble I think I'd be able to use certain techniques that I've learned to aid getting out of said trouble.
But as they say...the proof is in the pudding...I won't know until it happens,
|
|
|
|
Post by random on Aug 10, 2005 9:30:14 GMT
I think I am with andym on this. I believe my karate to be effective and useful, although I have never really had to use it (thankfully). Years ago I got a job as door security at a night club but good boxing skills was all that was really needed then, and it was never one on one, we were always 2 or 3 on one, so they were quickly over powered and ejected.
Ignorance is bliss, and I hope I never have to find out how effective my karate is.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Aug 10, 2005 21:20:14 GMT
Ignorance is bliss, and I hope I never have to find out how effective my karate is. Ditto. It's a skill I'm training for in the hope that I'll never have to use it for real. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Precision on Aug 11, 2005 0:17:54 GMT
So, when would YOU say that you feel you'd be able to use your karate knowledge? I found out how well I was able to use my karate quite a few years ago. It was a good part of the reason I gave it up. I'd been training for several years, it must have been 5 or so. A couple of pals and I were coming back from a night out and were surrounded by some drunks looking for a fight, I was volunteered as a karate expert. The lead drunk moved threateningly towards me and I punched him in the temple with an uraken zuki. Except I missed... Rather, I pulled the punch, it was on target but I missed him by a millimetre or two. I'd fully meant to hit him hard. It scared the drunk and they went on their way but i totally lost confidence in karate and my ability to defend myself. Quit fairly soon afterwards. It's one of the reasons I'm not entirely happy with my current club, they do bunkai, self defence applications but also freestyle kumite. If you do freestyle you're basically training yourself to do ineffectual blocks, pulled punches and kicks. When the adrenalin is going your body responds exactly as you trained it for all those years. I don't think full contact with all techniques is responsible but either don't do freestyle at all or do hard contact on the punches, kicks, blccks with plenty of padding. Anyway, that's why I quit before and why I'm looking for a fully traditional club now. I'm not sure I'm going to find that with shotokan given the JKA influence. |
|
|
|
Post by random on Aug 11, 2005 7:14:31 GMT
Generalisation is always a wonderful tactic to employ, rather than read one article and make up your mind, try shopping about to find a club that matches your criteria. It isn’t the association, the politics, the history, ‘ours is better than yours, ours is more traditional, (here’s a question, what’s the difference between traditional and tradition?) yours is more sport. Yawn, yawn, yawn.
It isn’t what you do, it is how you do it, you link all Shotokan into one box and all shotokai into another, I am sorry to disappoint you, but life isn’t so black and white.
Find a club, talk to the instructor, and train for a while, and make up your mind if it offers you what you want. But keep an opened mind, if you walk in with a preconceived opinion then that is all you will find.
Also the ‘sport’ karate that the JKA developed, and I have never been a member of that association, was a world away from the ‘sport’ karate we see today.
If you pull a punch in a real fight, then that isn’t down to the association, the instructor, the founder, it was your fist, your training, and your ability that let you down. Find a good club and train hard train hard and develop a strong mental approach. The best self-defence system is useless if you are not prepared to get stuck in when it counts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Precision on Aug 11, 2005 13:47:09 GMT
If you pull a punch in a real fight, then that isn’t down to the association, the instructor, the founder, it was your fist, your training, and your ability that let you down. Find a good club and train hard train hard and develop a strong mental approach. The best self-defence system is useless if you are not prepared to get stuck in when it counts. My post about shotokan vs shotokai wasn't based on their web page, of course they are putting their view forward. It was based on my experiences and search for effective training. I realise I'm generalising and that there are certainly good shotokan clubs and instructors, I think the one I'm at is one, I chose it out of a few in the area because it most closely matched my criteria. But there's still that practitioner vs practitioner freestyle, training you again and again not to hit, not to kick every time you stand up to face a real person and that's why I'm still looking. Sorry if that isn't what you want to hear. You could say I'm a Thompson/Abernethy convert. |
|
|
|
Post by random on Aug 11, 2005 15:36:40 GMT
The point I was making is that if you are training not to hit then you are missing the point (almost a bad pun) of a MA. Even in freestyle (not something I overly enjoy for lots of reasons) one should train to hit and be hit, perhaps that is just a symptom of today’s world; perhaps that is a question for you instructor, or perhaps to change club and style. There is good and bad in all, and some suit others more. You need to find the one that is right for you, that doesn’t mean the others are lacking something or aren’t as effective, it is just the style/club that suits you.
|
|
|
|
Post by random on Aug 11, 2005 15:40:21 GMT
To get back on topic, do you think that changing style/club would increase you ability to ‘know’ your karate?
|
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Precision on Aug 11, 2005 21:22:20 GMT
To get back on topic, do you think that changing style/club would increase you ability to ‘know’ your karate? No, it wouldn't change the ability to "know" it. You can have the understanding at an intellectual level, I think I'm starting to get there intellectually. Reflex is a different world. |
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Aug 11, 2005 22:51:21 GMT
True. In my head I'm a darn sight better than I am in "real life". Knowing something in your head and knowing something to be able to put it into practice is another matter.
I found a little of that in an incident I had when I was on holiday. I went to the "Bram Stoker Dracula Experience" (yeah, yeah, I know...) which was mostly a museum about Stoker, his work as an author and in theatre, and the reasons and influences for writing his most famous work.
Anyway, at the end there was a little "Chamber of Horrors" type thing - you know the sort, all latex models looking gruesome and things popping out of the walls. I was reading one of the info cards on the wall (about Dracula and wolves) when I felt someone come up behind me.
I turned around and there was this guy there dressed in full Drac costume. He pushed himself right into my face and went "baaahhhhh", waving his arms about as though he was Dracula about to bite me. Anyway, my karate reflexes kicked in and when I turned round and saw he was there and in my face I threw my hands up into guard, whacking him under the nose with an age-uke type move. Blood everywhere, and one seriously unhappy museum employee. He was very gracious about it, but I think I was the first person to ever hit him whilst he'd been playing Dracula... D'oh!
|
|
|
|
Post by miffersy on Oct 7, 2005 15:01:21 GMT
Not wanting to be philosophical but do we ever really know Karate?.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aefibird on Oct 7, 2005 15:52:31 GMT
Not wanting to be philosophical but do we ever really know Karate?. I'd say no. The longer you train the closer you get to knowing most stuff, but I'd say that you can never really truly know Karate and everything about it. Maybe you only get the final piece of knowledge when you go to the great dojo in the sky. |
|
|
|
Post by AngelaG on Oct 8, 2005 11:00:16 GMT
Not wanting to be philosophical but do we ever really know Karate?. I guess there are aspects of it people get so close to knowing that there's no real difference. However there are SO many aspects. I guess that leads back to "What IS karate"? Is karate just the techniques, is it the history as well, is it a set of core principles, is it perfection of character, is it standing in line in a gi, is it bonding with the other crazy people that turn up night after night, or is it just a name?? |
|
|
|
Post by miffersy on Oct 8, 2005 11:09:48 GMT
Quite simply YES
|
|
