Mawashi Geri

[AngelaG]

One of my favourite kicks.. and a high scorer in kumite.

When teaching from the basics we teach knee up to the side, so the leg is cocked up to the side, foot below the level of the knee, pivot the hip, straighten the leg, return to leg cocked position and then repivot the hip back.

Eventually this can be built up quite fast, but the chamber position is a giveaway when sparring that a mawashi geri is coming in rather than a straight kick, such as mae geri or kekomi. I've been playing around with chambering the leg to the front, the same as the other kicks, and then quickly changing to do the mawashi geri... with varying degrees of success. It needs to all be done very fast though or it's not so much telegraphed as sent second class post over the Christmas period!

Anyone else played with this. What've you found?

[pasmith]

My favourite kick bar none.
What you've described is my favourite way of consistently kicking people in the head!
It's one of the few things I still maintain from my TKD days.
I even go so far as almost doing a dummy front kick then bounce the roundhouse off that. What you lose in raw power is sometimes more than made up by the surprise factor (although that's getting into the realms of being a feint rather than an actual difference in chamber).
In Shidokan we also kick Thai style with no significant chamber.

[andym]

I find during Kihon I do it properly, as you described - "knee up to the side, so the leg is cocked up to the side, foot below the level of the knee, pivot the hip, straighten the leg, return to leg cocked position and then repivot the hip back" but during Kumite I do the latter - "chambering the leg to the front, the same as the other kicks, and then quickly changing to do the mawashi geri"....it can cause your opponent to believe there is a Mae Geri coming when in fact you've snapped your leg around the outside and hit them to the side of their face.

It's a good move, I like! ;D

[RigsVille]

I also use the chambering for Mae Geri and then twist my hips so that I perform Mawashi Geri, It's a very effective way to do it.

Another of my common kicks is to perform a double Mae Geri and then the Mawashi Geri.

[AngelaG]

I've been working on kemomi/mawashi geri. I've noticed that people seem to fluff up kekomi more as soon as they hit free sparring, I wonder if this is because the hip rotation forces more of a turn away from the opponent, and people are trying to do it whilst still facing straight on.

i.e. the leg chambers up front initially but then the hip needs to pivot away to pretty much 90 degrees, and people are trying to do it without this pivot.

[Aefibird]

andym said:

I find during Kihon I do it properly, as you described - "knee up to the side, so the leg is cocked up to the side, foot below the level of the knee, pivot the hip, straighten the leg, return to leg cocked position and then repivot the hip back" but during Kumite I do the latter - "chambering the leg to the front, the same as the other kicks, and then quickly changing to do the mawashi geri"....it can cause your opponent to believe there is a Mae Geri coming when in fact you've snapped your leg around the outside and hit them to the side of their face.

Yeah, that's quite often how we do it. "Textbook" sorta style when practicing in kihon, then modified when training drills, free sparring etc. The chamber to the front then change to mawashi geri is a good way of performing the kick without giving away that you're gonna come in with that technique.

That's also one of the main ways we kick in TKD; a half-turning kick having very little side chamber and being used as a "surprise" kick to dig into the ribs etc and the full turning kick employing full rotation of the hips and either the traditional chamber to the side or a quick switch after bringing the leg up to the front.

As for the kekomi, I've noticed that people have truble with it when starting free sparring. It seems that they can get the hang of it when training the kick from kibadachi or even from zenkutsudachi but have truble in turning the hips properly/fully when in a shorter/fighting type stance or when doing the kick with a partner. I think it's the fact that the supporting leg needs to pivot so much and the fact that the side kick isn't much away from a back kick in terms of rotation and body placement.

Beginners to free sparring tend to have trouble with techniques that aren't 'straight on' and ones such as kekomi or ushiro-geri are harder to fit into a free sparring scenario, because of the body turn that you have to do to perform them properly.

[pasmith]

"Textbook" sorta style when practicing in kihon, then modified when training drills, free sparring etc."

That rather begs the question...

If you have to adapt it when you actually use it what was the point of learning it like that in the first place?



Personally I see the roundhouse kick as encompassing a concept (a circular leg strike that lands with the front of the leg) rather than an actual technique in itself (if you get what I mean).
To that end it can land with the instep, shin, ball of the foot or toes and be chambered from the side the front or not at all and still be effective.
Who can say what is the right way of doing it if they all work?
I once got hit with a bitch of a Savate roundhouse that was fully chambered but then curved round my guard to hit me in the left kidney with the extended toes of a shoe. Not nice at all.
I've also been hit with leg roundhouse kicks with virtually no chamber that landed with the shin but left me with a dead leg and much reduced mobility.
Come to mention it I've been hit with roundhouse kicks that used striking surfaces right from below the knee (Thai) to almost the tips of outstretched toes (TKD) and been effected by them all.
I'd say that versatility is more important than adhering to a strict form.
As Angela is amply illustrating by using different methods of chambering etc.

[Aefibird]

pasmith said:

"Textbook" sorta style when practicing in kihon, then modified when training drills, free sparring etc."

That rather begs the question...

If you have to adapt it when you actually use it what was the point of learning it like that in the first place?



Personally I see the roundhouse kick as encompassing a concept (a circular leg strike that lands with the front of the leg) rather than an actual technique in itself (if you get what I mean).
To that end it can land with the instep, shin, ball of the foot or toes and be chambered from the side the front or not at all and still be effective.

I think you misunderstood my post, although I didn't make my meaning clear.

What I meant to say was that roundhouse like you have written - a concept that can be changed and worked on according to the situation. That's what I meant when I wrote 'then modified when training drills, free sparring etc'. Sorry, bad post.

[random]

I began in a system that chambered every kick toi the front with the knee raised as per front kick, then rotated the hips depending on the actually delivery. When I started with Shotokan I found it strange at first but now I can switch between the two, I just laugh when I get the explanation about kicking over a chair or a fallen opponent. I can however see the benefits to hip flexibility and muscle development, it is also quite a devastating kick when done correctly and as hard to block parry as any other. The one thing I have always been told is attack with the knee, so that even if someone steps into the chambered from the sidekick, you can clobber them with the knee, shin foot.

[subzero72]

you all very interesting way to kick in kumite *bows* I like to use a roundhouse kick and I also love to to jam my oppenent with my legs

[paulhe]

I think the main thing with effective kicking is the set up wether it be competition or self defence orientated. With regards the chambering of the knee in mawashi geri, I have three or four variations that I train. Traditional, Sport and two versions for self defence depending on the height of kick.

The traditonal mawashigeri is a devastating kick when performed correctly. The most important aspect being the foot making impact at the same time the knee concludes it's arc. Too many people perform this as seperate movements... the knee lifts, makes an arc toward the target and then they end up kicking with only the lower part of the leg ie; only a flick from the knee down to foot. All the power and energy from the arc is then lost.

[AngelaG]

For self-defence would not an unchambered kick be the most effective way of applying a roundhouse? Pick the leg up, chuck the hip in and use the leg as a solid bar.

[paulhe]

angelag said:

For self-defence would not an unchambered kick be the most effective way of applying a roundhouse? Pick the leg up, chuck the hip in and use the leg as a solid bar.

Exactly Angela!! The leg should impact like a solid bar and not a flick. I guess confusion enters into this on what exactly the individuals interpretation of chambering is. By chambering do people mean stopping the knee in a certain posistion before continuing the kick? As when you teach basic kihon kicking techniques?

[Aefibird]

paulhe said:

By chambering do people mean stopping the knee in a certain posistion before continuing the kick? As when you teach basic kihon kicking techniques?

I wouldn;t say that in basic kihon techniques the knee/leg is stopped in a certain position. Many karate schools teach the "knee up to the side" postion - that 'chamber' doesn't actually stop the motion of the kick, it's just one way of "preparing" the leg, if you like, before the kick is delivered. The knee up to the side way should be a smooth movement, leg lifts and kicks smoothly. I'm probably preaching to the converted here, you lot all know that anyway.

In a bit of a "that's spooky" moment, we were looking at mawashi geri tonight at training and working with a partner on the different ways the kick can be delivered (e.g. the 'feint' with the knee coming up to the front, as mentioned earlier in the thread).

[Shorin Ryu Sensei]

We do our roundhouse kicks from the same position as a front snap kick, in that we bring the knee up pointing directly at your opponent, launch the kick and about midway through the kick the leg is rotated so that you arc your foot to strike the knee, thigh, ribs (as high as we'd ever kick) or whatever target we are aiming at. The reasoning for this, and it works, is that against an experienced opponent that also trains in the arts, it appears to be a front snap kick coming at them, then it changes to a roundhouse kick. Depending on the situation, the striking surface of the kicking foot can be either the top of the foot, the ball of the foot (to get past the block normally), or the dreaded point of the toes (soft target areas only of course). Myself, I won't use my toes to kick with in a real fight...to much chance of getting them broken, but it is a technique that is practiced. We can rotate our hips during this kick, but generally don't to the extent that our body turns also. We like to stay facing our opponents rather than turning our side or back to them.

All in all, I'd say the roundhouse kick is my favorites also, especially the front leg roundhouse to the groin or inner thigh. It's fast, sneaky (my favorite way to be), effective and easily can be combined into multiple combinations of followup techniques.