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Post by bwRyukyuKempo on May 11, 2006 14:26:53 GMT
I know this subject angers some people, and it has been discussed a lot in other places, but i have to ask... Who uses pressure points in their karate, and to what extent. For us it is ALL about pressure points. For example, we are taught kyusho jitsu, which means something like "one second fighting". The theory is that if someone makes a move on you, the fight should be over in one second, using pressure point knock outs. This is all taken out of kata, and we practice this break down as our self defense. Just curious as to what everybody else is doing. (Plus we needed a new thread in here......  ) |
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Post by AngelaG on May 11, 2006 16:07:04 GMT
We use pressure points, but the philosophy is that PPs are the last 5% of whatever we do. However I think that when you really study kata it's all kind of there for you, already built in, so someone may well be using them without even realising it.
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Post by nkudahc on May 11, 2006 17:14:47 GMT
our philosophy is basically make the techniques and applications work, if you hit a pp in the process then thats just extra credit.
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Post by random on May 11, 2006 17:27:35 GMT
I work along the same lines, I think about them and look at what application might hit a particular pressure point. But if I had to hit someone I wouldn’t worry too much where I hit as long as I did.
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 9:20:03 GMT
I barely touch on them (pun intended) in training let alone making it "ALL about pressure points". Personally I don't rate them very highly as useful things in a fight. Probably not useless but not main artillery. I remember reading a good point made by some American SD guy..."Could you hit your intended target on a silhouette of a person?"....if not it's probably not a target you could hit for reality. I'm thinking "dark alley, bad lighting, fast moving opponent, chaos of a real fight" and all that. If you think you can hit a target the size of a ten pence piece in that environment then you are a way better fighter than me. My main "pressure points" are the "legs", "body" and "head" and I have a hard enough time hitting those buggers with any consistancy.  If ever I want to get some perspective on pressure points I watch that video on the net of a fat PP guy (why are they always fat?) trying it on some BJJ guys. The PP guy's students were dropping like flies. The BJJ guys just stood there and wondered what the hell he was trying to do. The PP guy can't even faze the small female TV reporter. PP would get slightly more respect if they weren't continually linked with distance knockouts, dim-mak and other such rubbish. |
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Post by nkudahc on May 12, 2006 11:37:22 GMT
;D link to video?
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 12:04:41 GMT
Trying to find same. Bear with me. |
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 12:21:24 GMT
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Post by nkudahc on May 12, 2006 12:35:55 GMT
i love how it works so well on his students but no one else. thanks for the link |
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 12:52:29 GMT
No you weren't listening. It doesn't work on natural athletes he said. Whatever they are. I can only assume he means anyone with a pulse and a mind of their own? Because clearly EVERYONE that has ever or will ever do BJJ is a natural athlete of course. Even me. I can also extrapolate that therefore NONE of his students are natural athletes? Judging by the line work, fat guts on show and the weedy gimp that talks at the end that isn't far wrong. That weedy gimp should grow a pair and get down to that BJJ place. Evidently there they learn how to counter his instructors energy if nothing else. Pressure points are just a part of the same myth that a small 80 year old asian man can whoop 5 big rugby players with just his fingers. Fighting takes work. And being good at fighting takes work. Pressure points encourage people to imagine that fighting is easy if only they could master "skill X" or "esoteric energy Y". Glove up and go at it. Wrestle all out. Learn some awareness and attack rituals. Hit each other. Do that and you'll be getting somewhere. Add some PP's to that and you might have something extra in your arsenal. Trusting everything to PP's is just silly. Oh yeah and that main dude might go some way to losing his gut too if he trained like that. |
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 13:06:03 GMT
And another thing...
He went to that BJJ place and couldn't knock out ANYONE.
Send the BJJ instructor over to his place and the instructor would tap out EVERYONE. One after the other. Hell send one of the purple belts and he'd do the same.
I've seen BJJ black belts tap out GOOD grapplers (good blue belts) one after the other let alone complete noobs.
That's because skill in BJJ is tried and tested and that skill is acquired through years of rolling and drilling with resistance. The skill is not esoteric or only works on 40% of people. The skill is pragmatic and practical. Unlike pressure points.
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Post by AngelaG on May 12, 2006 15:50:09 GMT
Pressure points don't just work on 40% of people though.
However you do raise a lot of good points. (hehe) Pressure points are not the supreme answer to knowing how to fight, and becoming a good fighter. The primary aspect of being a good fighter is having that sort of mindset. I am happy in the knowledge that I will never be a brillaint fighter, because I do not have that mindset to be so. Violence is not something I want to be a part of, unless I have no other choice. Furthermore any trained fighter may go down the pub on a Friday night and find themselves KOed by a bloke that has no formal training, but gets into a fight each and very weekend. Part of the problem with fighting is dealing with the adrenaline dump, and short of making fighting an everyday part of your life there is nothing much anyone can do about that.
I do train self-defence though, and when I train it I hope and pray I'll never have to test it. Training for self-defence is hard work though. Everyone knows that top athletes have to train hard to reach their peak, and yet still think they can become deadly ninjas with a couple of hours halfhearted training a week. Life just isn't that simple.
To become a good fighter there are many aspects that need to be trained, honed and drilled. There's no point in knowing where all the pressure points are if your average punch is no stronger than a dead gnats. Like I said, PPs are the last 5%. Get everything else right first, then you can worry about them.
The sooner people drop the mystical ninja act then the sooner there can be some serious inroads into stuff like PPs and hopefully they'll lose their bad name.
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Post by pasmith on May 12, 2006 16:46:40 GMT
"I am happy in the knowledge that I will never be a brillaint fighter, because I do not have that mindset to be so."
No body has to be a "brilliant" fighter. How about a "good" fighter?
Is is that you don't have that mindset? that you don't think you can develop that mindset? or you don't have the inclination to develop that mindset in the first place?
Three very different things.
What makes you think that you have the mindset to defend yourself but not the mindset to be a fighter?
I don't see much difference myself.
I see them as being two sides of the same coin. "Bottle" is "bottle" and will serve you well as a fighter OR in SD.
Surely a SD situation that goes longer than say 30 seconds is now a "fight"?
Are you saying that once a Sd situation reaches the "fight" stage you can't perform? I doubt that very much.
"any trained fighter may go down the pub on a Friday night and find themselves KOed by a bloke that has no formal training, but gets into a fight each and very weekend."
That has ever and will ever be the case.
Equally that pub-thug could meet a trained fighter that has ALSO had plenty of real fights and get himself torn a new arse for his troubles. Just because untrained people are good at fighting doesn't mean that trained fighters aren't.
The right training CAN and SHOULD be able to take someone that is not a natural fighter (like me and perhaps like you) and make them better. Make them into an "adequate" fighter if not a "brilliant" one.
If I didn't believe that was the case I'd give up MA right now.
"The sooner people drop the mystical ninja act then the sooner there can be some serious inroads into stuff like PPs and hopefully they'll lose their bad name."
Amen to that.
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Post by bwRyukyuKempo on May 23, 2006 14:56:08 GMT
Very cool to hear everyone's opinions.
I am starting to understand that most people don't think too highly about pp fighting.
That video does make it look pretty bad! lol
bw
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Post by Aefibird on May 30, 2006 22:38:34 GMT
This would be a good thread to continue on the new forum.... ;D
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