Kata

[Mr. Precision]

searcher2 said:

If we are in agreement that kata can be many things and that it has a worth, who would forum members recommend as someone who can really teach kata?

Sorry. I think the student has to be his/her own teacher. Karate is a way, a path. You have to follow it yourself, otherwise why all the lies? I think it's the instructors responsibility to teach the tools necessary to analyse kata and provide some guidance.

How's about we put together some tools for analysing kata?

[AngelaG]

A student can eventually be their own teacher, but I think for a lot of people you are looking into at least the fairly high kyu grades before they can start to understand the principles behind the techniques. I see it the same as my education. In the early grade (primary school), you are pretty much spoon fed everything, just mastering the basic techniques is hard enough. Then you advance on the secondary school and you start having a bit more freedom, and the teachers start helping you learn HOW to learn. And then as you advance you carry on through to the University Degree; I had to go out and do a lot of research and thought on my own, but I still needed the lectures to help me advance through my course.

Eventually we leave the University and start having to struggle through life on our own. Even though then we can still check into a library to check we're following the right path

[Mr. Precision]

angelag said:

A student can eventually be their own teacher, but I think for a lot of people you are looking into at least the fairly high kyu grades before they can start to understand the principles behind the techniques.

I'd go along with that, I have less trouble with it because I've been there already. The problem with not understanding the principles is you're not going to understand when to apply a technique when the situation is different from practice.

angelag said:

I see it the same as my education. In the early grade (primary school), you are pretty much spoon fed everything, just mastering the basic techniques is hard enough. Then you advance on the secondary school and you start having a bit more freedom, and the teachers start helping you learn HOW to learn. And then as you advance you carry on through to the University Degree; I had to go out and do a lot of research and thought on my own, but I still needed the lectures to help me advance through my course.

Eventually we leave the University and start having to struggle through life on our own. Even though then we can still check into a library to check we're following the right path

That's why we need some systematic tools to help look at kata. As you say, If school and uni do one thing it's to teach you how to think about something. I'd put money on it that many instructors aren't imparting those tools to their students, they may not have the skills themselves. I know we haven't been taught that kind of thing by our sensei (yet...).

What did you study BTW?

[AngelaG]

Hmm I think that I'm pretty happy that from the middlish kyu grades we are already being helped as to how to look at the kata. I think some people just pick it all up a bit quicker than others, but by the higher kyu grades/shodan people should definitely be able to come up with bunkai for any move in the kata they've studied. Preferably by understanding the principles behind the move also being able to come up with decent bunkai for a move from any kata, even if they've never seen it before.

I studied B.Sc(hons) Multimedia, Production and Technology.

(Sorry my grammar sucks in the first paragraph! )

[Mr. Precision]

angelag said:

Hmm I think that I'm pretty happy that from the middlish kyu grades we are already being helped as to how to look at the kata.

To be honest in our class the stances still suck, hips way off, knees, wrists bent, evenly distributed weight. There's a couple of guys starting to get it, they're the ones who come to the tuesday classes as well.

angelag said:

I studied B.Sc(hons) Multimedia, Production and Technology.

Ah, hence your interest in video kit!

angelag said:

(Sorry my grammar sucks in the first paragraph! )

Yes it's shocking. Forums are for informal conversation or discussion though so it's more like verbal communication than written, I don't think the rules of grammar apply.

[Sionnagh]

angelag said:

Hmm I think that I'm pretty happy that from the middlish kyu grades we are already being helped as to how to look at the kata. I think some people just pick it all up a bit quicker than others, but by the higher kyu grades/shodan people should definitely be able to come up with bunkai for any move in the kata they've studied.

Good that you're being shown. Some schools say the same sort of thing "by ... grade people should be able to come up with..." but it's used as a way of stopping people asking, to hide ignorance, by making them feel foolish.

angelag said:

Preferably by understanding the principles behind the move also being able to come up with decent bunkai for a move from any kata, even if they've never seen it before.

Funakoshi said that same thing!


Mick

[AngelaG]

Shouldan instructor teach the kata with regards to techniques, or with regards to principles? Or a bit of both....... or neither?

What about moves that are purely for energetic purposes, or a kata designed purely as an exercise routine??

[Sionnagh]

A bit of both I reckon. As we go through a kata instruction is given on individual techniques within the kata as well as principles. Sometimes one aspect may feature predominantly depending on what the focus of the session is.


Mick