Kata

[AngelaG]

OK - I post this with a certain amount of trepidation but what are your thoughts on Kata? Pros and cons? Is it effective? What does kata do for you? What bad habits does it promote? Common misunderstandings?

Etc. etc.. etc.

This thread can go wherever we want to lead it BUT please remain calm and polite and constructive throughout. You don't have to think positively about kata but this is NOT an opportunity for a general troll.

Angela

[random]

Kata is the route of it all, just going up and down doing Kihon would soon dry up and would be boring. Kata also leads into kumite through bunkai.

[random]

And from what I have read Karate was originally taught through Kata, Kihon as we know it was a development that came later.

[AngelaG]

From what I understand Kihon and kumite are more the sports side of karate. Kata/bunkai/oyo is a different animal. Some dojo may try and close the gap by bringing more bunkai etc. into their "sparring".

[searcher2]

It rather depends on what your definition of kata is.

Some people just practice the "doing" of kata. This is good for meditation, learning co-ordination, and exercise.

Some people like to look deeper at their kata and find out what the moves mean.

Some prominent martial artists have criticised the practice of kata as being without meaning if one intends to learn self defence. My belief is that they are referring to the solo practice of the moves without intention.

The movements and applications of kata cannot be performed full power on a training partner if that training partner is to walk away at the end of the night. In this regard the solo form is a requirement for practising the movements with intention.

The question then becomes one of reaction time to any given threat. Performance of kata movements to a given stimulus (preferably a mixture of vocal and visual) can be used to train reaction time.

Back to the original question; like everything else in karate, the practice is only useful if you know what you are using it for. For example: I find 5 step kumite to be a great assistance - as long as you can admit that it isn't training for a fight.

Happy thinking.

[random]

It is interesting how you start with the great quandary with anything like Kata and its relevance. Definition.

I think I have been lucky that all the clubs and associations I have been part of, and I can list them on one hand, have taken a very serious approach to Kata. Although I have been exposed to the ‘sport kata’, which seems to have sprung up in recent years.

Without copying a post elsewhere, the karate ka has to learn the kata, that is where arms and legs have to be and when, then forget it. The karate ka can then DO the kata, with passion, control, commitment and focus. I try not to use the word performance with kata, as IMO it should be felt not performed ( I don’t mean to sound critical some expressions don’t quite lend themselves to the written word, foibles of the English Language). But you are right in that reaction time, body position, in essence everything should lend itself to the prescribed attack for that particular block/punch etc. That is where we have the dichotomy of doing the kata for real and never actually knowing whether it really is effective. It would be a small short-lived club if full emphasis were placed on bunkai, although I do have a list of people I would like to ‘volunteer’ to try some out on.

I believe one needs to have a very vivid imagination if one is to practice kata, and do kata and get the most out of it, although it is prescribed, it is a fight, kata is block, counter, move (a generalisation I know but the theory is sound) and the karate ka needs to take their consciousness’ to another level, immerse themselves in the kata…and go for it.

On a down side I think that people are quick to get through the early katas in order to learn the more advanced, explosive, complicated katas of the higher grades with truly appreciating the depth that is to be found even in kihon kata.

I to enjoy 1, 3 and 5 step kumite as an extension of kata, breaking down different blocks and counters, but as you say, it is no training for a

[AngelaG]

random said:

On a down side I think that people are quick to get through the early katas in order to learn the more advanced, explosive, complicated katas of the higher grades with truly appreciating the depth that is to be found even in kihon kata.

This is true, but I think many people just can't start appreciating a kata until they have distanced themselves from the need of having to do it for a grading. Still, as karate is for life there is plenty of time to go back and explore the undiscovered intricacies later on.

[random]

I had thought of making that point but got side tracked by the film I am watching. Kata to grade can often take priority over kata to learn. I think that that is where a good Sensei shines though in bringing their students past that level.

[jones]

I don't have much experience in this but I think that Kata is important in teaching techniques that otherwise would not be used. For example, if all you did was spar then you would just stick to your three or four best techniques. Also, kata is art as far as I can see. This is when you portray the art of your fighting system. In my oppinion Kata is an essential part of a system, however it needs to be backed up with sparring, padwork and breaking.

[Aefibird]

IMO, kata is an absolutely essential part of karate. To me, kata IS karate.

Although other parts of karate are important (as has been mentioned with gohon ippon kumite etc), kata and the accompanying bunkai/oyo are the most essential things for me.

[Sionnagh]

What kata is would seem to depend on the teacher. For some it is simply something which has to be learnt for grading and serves no purpose beyond that. For others it is something to be learnt in addition to kihon, kumite and everything else they may have in their syllabus. And there are a few who use kata as a tool for teaching karate, where it could be described as the core of their system but in terms of how it is used and not how many different kata they have.

I hope that makes some kind of sense.


Mick

[searcher2]

Patrick McCarthy makes a great deal of saying that few people are qualified to "really" teach kata.

If we are in agreement that kata can be many things and that it has a worth, who would forum members recommend as someone who can really teach kata?

i.e.: someone who can teach all of the things that YOU want from kata, whether you be big or small, male or female, fighter or artist?

[random]

Good question, answers on a post card.

[AngelaG]

random said:

Good question, answers on a post card.

Or on the forum?

[AngelaG]

I was thinking about this today, and having been around many a martial art forum, and having read other karateka's opinion on who they would like (or not in some cases) to train with, it seems that there is certainly a drought on kata/bunkai masters. There are often comments like "Sensei X has great power and speed in his kumite" or "Sensei Y has superb technique", but very few "Visit sensei Z, he has profound kata/bunkai knowledge". I guess the name that is often heard would be Ian Abernethy. I've not yet had the opportunity to train with him so I couldn't really say.