'traditional' vs 'competition' kata

[Aefibird]

Do you think that there should be a difference between so-called 'traditional' kata and that used for competition?

I'm not talking about creative/musical/freestyle/xma forms - that's a different subject entirely IMO - but I mean kata that you train in that is part of your style.

Often, there is a way of training in kata 'for competition' - should this be so, in order to keep the traditional side of karate away from competition/sport side or should kata be the same whether it is used as an application/method for self defence, for competition or simply for health reasons?

[MasterH]

I happen to use a traditional form over the more modern forms. I feel it's a way I can get in touch with the traditions of the art, I do not practice the modern forms but I do see them as a good way to "show off" in competition. There should be different divisions for traditional forms and modern forms, but, I don't think there is really much of a call for it.

[Aefibird]

I was thinking more of taking a traditional form and adapting it so that it looks 'better' for competition.

For example, the World Karate Federation has deemed that in WFK sanctioned events there are certain compulsory kata for each style. Shotokan compulsory kata (to be done in rounds 1 and 2 of any WKF National or International) are Jion and Kanku Dai.

To make it 'fair' for all competitors, each of the compulsory kata for each style have been "standardised" so that everyone is doing a basically identical kata. This means that changes have been made to these kata so there is now a "competition" version of Jion and Kanku Dai and the "traditional" versions, taught withing ech dojo and association.

Is it a good thing to have a certain way of doing a kata kept just for competition use or does it just devalue the purpose of kata and karate in the first place?

e.g if I wish to enter a kata competition, should the way I train in my kata practice be any different from how I train in kata for SD practice? Should there be a "competition" way of doing a kata and a "SD" way and a "spiritual" way and an "x" way and a "y" way and so on or should the kata remain the same regardless of the purpose it is being used for?

[random]

If by standardising Kata practice Kata is improved then it cannot be a bad thing. If it is done just to make judging easier, that is by direct comparison rather than assessing interpretation, then that may not be such a good thing.

I would have hoped that with Shotokan they were all very much they same (wishful thinking) and so on throughout all other styles etc.

[MasterH]

Also there is something to be said about being able to write your own material..........and if it's good, hey!

[Aefibird]

masterh said:

Also there is something to be said about being able to write your own material..........and if it's good, hey!

Of course it's good, I wrote it!!

[MasterH]

Ego will get you everywhere with me............

[bob]

karate katas are constantly changing. in okinawa all the instructors changed the kata to make it better. there is no traditional form of any kata that anyone remembers unless it is a new one that was made up. when people now think of traditional katas they dont mean the original one, they mean the version that their founder or someone else ( in shotokan gichin funokoshi or his son) first introduced to japan. the reason that martial arts stay relevant is that they evolve. if they didnt it would all stagnate and become dated and irrelevant. the wkf katas are merely the latest versions of the katas and those are the versions that should be practiced. ill give one example from shotokan.. in heian godan there is a jump. when i started we were taught to kiai on landing and as is normal after a kiai, pause in the crouched position that you landed in. this has now been changed and as you land you move straight into the next position. this was changed because the pause was putting tremendous strain on the knees and damaging people permanently ( i personally cant train without knee supports and almost all shotokan karateka who started before the 90's are the same). if you then look at the bunkai, the new version is better for a self defence situation. the pause was to emphasise the kiai, not for any other reason and considering that you are supposedly jumping over a sword you wouldnt want to pause before you strike your opponent. the only difference now is that the wkf decide how katas evolve, not individual instructors.

[MasterH]

good post!

[bob]

why thank you.

[AngelaG]

If you were to make up your own kata how would you go about it? Would you look at effective techniques that you like to use and then modify them into a kata, or would you look at techniques that look good and build a kata on that, or something different?

I think I'd work out what works well for me, study the principles behind those technqiues and build a kata around that. In such a way the kata could almost be considered my own personal style.

If we do not allow kata to evolve then we are trying to fit ourselves into someone else's model of training, instead of finding out what works for us.


Just some ramblings... I'm tired and bored.

[Aefibird]

It'd have to be (for me) to take techniques that I could use well and effectively and work them into a kata. There would be no point creating "my" kata if there were techniques in it that I thought were difficult (that rules out any spinning or jumping or any other nasty stuff where you don't have at least one foot on the ground at all times ) or if there were techniques in it that required a lot of thought and effort, such as some of the fine motor skill locks.

Now, there's nothing wrong with having thought and effort - it's just that in a fight I need stuff that I (personally) can realistically use, rather than something that I might fumble or is long and complicated, because that usually means that your opponent has beaten you to a pulp whilst you're trying to figure out the latest technique you learned.

So, my personal kata would have plenty of uraken in it...I like uraken...