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Post by Aefibird on Feb 5, 2006 20:28:36 GMT
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Post by AngelaG on Feb 5, 2006 20:53:09 GMT
I think preparing for a kick is somewhat dangerous - why telegraph a technique?
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Post by Shorin Ryu Sensei on Feb 5, 2006 21:49:50 GMT
Ah..thanks for those aefibird. We don't have either of those stances in Shorin Ryu. Just a personal note...I don't see how they'd protect the groin area. In fact, while in those stances your muscles would be tightened to the point that you couldn't move fast enough to protect your groin anyway from a front leg roundhouse to the groin. Our stances...heck, the whole system, is designed as a more natural way of doing things. Those stances aren't normal unless you're extremely pidgeon toed! ;D Another thought on those stances is that they are impractical for a system that uses lots of body movements. You can't move in that stance very quickly. It's a static stance, not a mobile one. Just a difference in systems...we don't like to be "rooted" in one spot, but rather very mobile. It's not wrong...just a different approach to the same objective. Apples and oranges.  |
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Post by Shorin Ryu Sensei on Feb 5, 2006 21:54:29 GMT
I think preparing for a kick is somewhat dangerous - why telegraph a technique? There's no telegraph involved Angela. The transition (easier to show than describe) is a movement normally to the side or at a 45 degree angle to the front of your opponent as they step in on you to punch or kick. The crane stance is there to 1. provide protection to the grom with your shin and knee, 2. to chamber for a kick to opponents groin, behind the thigh, opposite leg/knee (varies with what your opponent is doing) and 3. allows you to go forward or backwards...again, depending on the situation. sure wish I had access to a camera and knowlege as to how to post it...sure would make things easier to explain on this end. Having dialup doesn't help either.  |
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Post by AngelaG on Feb 5, 2006 22:00:59 GMT
They do protect the groin area.
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Post by Shorin Ryu Sensei on Feb 6, 2006 3:47:06 GMT
They do protect the groin area. I've looked at those pictures again closely...can you explain how do they block a groin kick?  Seems to me that the knees are bent inward, whjich doesn't really protect the groin sufficiently, and in the first stance the weight appears to be forward of center, which isn't a safe place to place your weight with yoru feet liek that. Again, not saying it's wrong for you...but certainly it is wrong for me in the way that I do things. |
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Post by nkudahc on Feb 6, 2006 13:31:21 GMT
do you use shiko dachi SRS, does it protect the groin sufficiently? i don't think you can just dismiss a stance because you can find one or two things wrong with it, every stance has their weaknesses and strengths. you just have to figure out what they are good for.
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Post by AngelaG on Feb 6, 2006 16:30:50 GMT
No 'stance' is going to be able to protect a determined attacker from a groin attack, if that's what they really and truly want to go for. The best way to avoid an attack to the groin is to not have your groin where they are attacking, shift offline and deal with the attacker. That goes the same for the crane stance as well. Personally I prefer never to 'block', it seems to me if you need to block then you have been taken off-guard. Shift, parry, redirect, but stand still and see if someone can kick me in the groin - even as a female I say no thanks!
The stances are also not necessarily static, only if you choose to view the snapshot pictures of them, and think that way. It is very easily to quickly move and sink into a modified hangetsu dachi (i.e. not stylised for kata). You have to understand that some movements in kata have been 'neatened' up for performance sake.
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Post by Shorin Ryu Sensei on Feb 6, 2006 19:50:30 GMT
No 'stance' is going to be able to protect a determined attacker from a groin attack, if that's what they really and truly want to go for. On that I have to disagree Angela. The patented Shorin Ryu stance of "I gotta Pee-dachi" covers the groin most effectively and completely. OK...sorry, I had to inject some humor in here..we're getting WAY to serious! ;D Well...yeah, that's pretty obvious. An just to note here, don't get caught up into thinking the crane stance is a static, "I'm standing here on one leg and going to stand here for a long time" technique. It's not...as any other stance shouldn't be either. It's part of an arsenal of techniques and has specific applications. Well...technically, all blocks are just strikes anyway, and meant to not just deflect or just "block" an attack. A proper "block" should hurt an attacker, not just deflect a strike or keep a strike from hitting you. As for the need to block being taken as you were offguard, I don't agree with that. In Shorin Ryu at least, we are counter-fighters. meaning we want the other person to attack and we take advantage of openings that are always created by an attack. Therefore, a block is an important aspect of the art. Again, as I mentioned before, that block is actually a counter attack in itself, if nothing more than to create an opening to exploit. Agreed...and to me, that's what those two stances appear to be. Static and either unmovable, solid and locked, or at least, very difficult to be movile quickly out of them. I'll have to try to pop into the local Shotokan dojo one day and ask them about those stances and see if they can give me more of a visual. Oh gee...I hadn't thought of that one!  Come on Angela, give me some credit here...I've been doing this (the martial arts) longer than you've been alive...OK? I know full well that kata are the theoretically "perfect" method of doing techniques and are gong to be modified during a real confrontation...sheesh! I'm not a novice white belt here ya know. |
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Post by AngelaG on Feb 6, 2006 20:38:40 GMT
When I write I mean "you" and "your" in a very general sense. I've pointed that out before - nothing to be taken personally. Especially as, you'll notice, I actually do not quote anything from your post.
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Post by AngelaG on Feb 6, 2006 20:49:16 GMT
Well...yeah, that's pretty obvious. An just to note here, don't get caught up into thinking the crane stance is a static, "I'm standing here on one leg and going to stand here for a long time" technique. It's not...as any other stance shouldn't be either. It's part of an arsenal of techniques and has specific applications. Perhaps you would like to respond to Searcher2's post about the crane stance as he spent a bit of time detailing his thoughts? Well...technically, all blocks are just strikes anyway, and meant to not just deflect or just "block" an attack. A proper "block" should hurt an attacker, not just deflect a strike or keep a strike from hitting you. As for the need to block being taken as you were offguard, I don't agree with that. In Shorin Ryu at least, we are counter-fighters. meaning we want the other person to attack and we take advantage of openings that are always created by an attack. Therefore, a block is an important aspect of the art. Again, as I mentioned before, that block is actually a counter attack in itself, if nothing more than to create an opening to exploit. In my opinion there is a difference between a hard block - meeting force with force, and responding to an attack and exploiting weaknesses. If I can help it I don't want to meet force with force, I may turn out to be the weaker of the pair. Furthermore I really don't want to be blocking an attack to my groin, much better that I position myself so that it is less likely to occur. Agreed...and to me, that's what those two stances appear to be. Static and either unmovable, solid and locked, or at least, very difficult to be movile quickly out of them. I'll have to try to pop into the local Shotokan dojo one day and ask them about those stances and see if they can give me more of a visual. Depends on what kind of Shotokan dojo it is. A lot are pure sport, and therefore would not have much need for those stances outside of performing their kata. Sanchin, I believe is practiced more widely in Goju Ryu than shotokan, hangetsu dachi is more the Shotokanised version of it. As I said it can be used as a free-flowing stance, easy to move into and out of. Personally I think if you look at photos of any Shotokan stance they look hard to move within, but with practice it is achieved as people understand their bodies, and the stances, a bit more. |
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Post by Andy on Feb 7, 2006 0:57:39 GMT
They do protect the groin area. I've looked at those pictures again closely...can you explain how do they block a groin kick? Seems to me that the knees are bent inward, whjich doesn't really protect the groin sufficiently, and in the first stance the weight appears to be forward of center, which isn't a safe place to place your weight with yoru feet liek that. Again, not saying it's wrong for you...but certainly it is wrong for me in the way that I do things. If I might interject as a Non JMA type person. You can't tell zip about anything from a photograph, and little more from observing an unfamiliar Kata. At best, you're playing Paper, Scissors, Rock. |
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Post by Shorin Ryu Sensei on Feb 7, 2006 2:45:54 GMT
As Angela has requested, I will respond to searcher2's post (sorry, must have missed it) Tsuru ashi dachi Crane foot stance If I lift my foot to that position what happens to my knee? It rises. If there is an opponent grappling with me then guess where that knee goes. Anywhere is good. If you get the groin, well done. If it goes to the inside thigh, well done. If it goes to the outside thigh, well done. Of course systems vary, but in Shorin Ryu the lifting of the foot/knee in the crane stance is not used for a groin strike with the knee...or to any other target. Of course it can be interupted that way for bunkai, but it isn't really that sort of a technique. If I'm picturing your scenerio correctly, you're saying that the foot that is behind the knee should wrap around the opponent in the event you're falling to the ground? Ohhhhh...BAD idea IMHO. Wrapping your foot around an opponent like that sounds like a good way to get your family jewels rearranged possibly at the end of the fall, or to have a lack of control of your fall. Well, referring to what I said previously, I wouldn't want to be locking my legs around an opponent, such as in a crane stance, as I was falling. And trying to twist a neck at the same time? Nope...sounds like to much room for error and mistakes to me. I'm not sure how this pertains to the crane stance topic. *totally lost me on this one*...I'll have to take your word for it I guess. |
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Post by ukshorinryu on Feb 28, 2006 14:44:17 GMT
I'd like to ask a question please. There is a stance, which is in kata Gankaku. You stand on one leg, the right leg. The instep of the left foot goes behind, and touches the back of the right knee. I'm struggling to understand this stance. What's it all about do you think? ta Some interesting responses on this one, from my perspective - 1. crane stance is transitionary and helps us recieve force, and to 'float' 2. the foot positioning is important, it is always off line and the knee covers our groin, instantly a front foot kick can be delivered as we 'step' down to control 3. if you dont get offline, which happens in reality the knee can be used to bridge the attacker, leading to a nice stomp when putting the foot down. |
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Post by subzero72 on Mar 16, 2006 6:14:02 GMT
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Seems to me that the knees are bent inward, whjich doesn't really protect the groin sufficiently, and in the first stance the weight appears to be forward of center, which isn't a safe place to place your weight with yoru feet liek that. Again, not saying it's wrong for you...but certainly it is wrong for me in the way that I do things.
Come on Angela, give me some credit here...I've been doing this (the martial arts) longer than you've been alive...OK? I know full well that kata are the theoretically "perfect" method of doing techniques and are gong to be modified during a real confrontation...sheesh! I'm not a novice white belt here ya know. 