MOVED: ANGELA G: Trying other styles

[Karate Resource]

Angela G wrote:

Hi

What are the pros and cons of trying other Martial Arts style in addition to your "chosen" style?

At what level do you think it appropriate to look elsewhere to further your knowledge?

Angela

[Karate Resource]

RDKI wrote:

Aha, we meet again! ;D

While I feel cross training is valuable and important for students to gain a broader understanding of their own art and martial arts in general, I don't feel that this should be undertaken until the student has a good grasp of the fundamentals of their base art. Cross training too early will just lead to confusion.

Anyone looking to broaden their horizons should speak to their instructor before doing so. No instructor worth their salt would prevent a student from cross training when they are ready. It is however a matter of manners, respect and etiquette. In addition to this a good instructor should also tell their student if they feel it too ealry or that they need to grasp their base art motre before doing so.

Hope that makes sense and that it helps ;D
Martyn

[Karate Resource]

Searcher1 wrote:

A man cannot chase two rabbits.

... and anyway, it's not about what art you train in, but rather about experiencing different teachers and the inevitable individual bias that will occur with each.

One man's aikido is another man's ...

You get the idea,

John

[Karate Resource]

RDKI wrote:

Nijushiho/Niseishi???

Would somebody who has only ever been exposed to striking recognise throwing/grappling applications of their own art and vice versa?
I don't disagree with what you say at all about insturctors and their individual biases- but aren't these borne of a lack of cross training?

Only a thought
MPH

[Karate Resource]

Searcher1 wrote:

Lack of experience isn't necessarily due to a lack of cross-training; it's due to a lack of training with an instructor who knows the potential of their kata.

A good instructor teaches the tactics and strengths of the movements to the student for whom it is appropriate. If the student is going to be a good kicker then they need their kicks developed. That doesn't mean that they neglect the rest of their art, just that they have their strengths maximised and their weaknesses minimised.

It's no good trying to turn me into a sprinter. I'm not pre-disposed towards it. I'm not built for it. I'm (reasonably) fit, but I'm no sprinter. My sensei has to realise this and teach me the benefits of pre-empitve striking, effective use of body-weight, positioning etc so that i never have to be a sprinter.

That doesn't mean I won't train for fitness, I just won't develop effective sprinting ability.

Yours

John

[dclark]

If you ask the high ranking folks, just about all study or have studied another martial art, be it judo, Kendo, ti chi or weapons (a parallel path for most of the Okinawa folks). However it is probably best to at least dan in one before branching off in other directions.

[RDKI]

I would have to agree with that.

As I said in my earlier post, it's necessary to get a good grip of the fundamentals of the base art first which, after all is what a shodan is - confirmation that you have got to grips with the basics.

[AngelaG]

There's only a certain amount of hours in a day, and a certain amount of days in a week. Mine are pretty much booked up with work, current training and fitting in the social commitments of family/friends.

I am not so much talking about dedicating myself to another martial art full time, but visiting other centres and training with them for a session or two.

Everyone has something to teach, even if it's how NOT to do it!

[Aefibird]

Well, personally, I think that training in other styles can be helpful, especially if it is in a style that focuses on an area not covered by the style a person is already studying. (For example a karate stylist could train in some Judo or Aikido, as grappling areas don't tend to be covered as much in karate training as striking.)

However, I think that a person wishing to cross-train in another art should have a few years experience under their belt of their initial style. Ideally, they should be a dan grade or a high brown belt.

As for training with other clubs/styles occasionally - yeah, can be good! You get to see hown other people do the same techniques as you (if you train with your own style but in another club) or you get to experience the vast world of martial arts outside your own style, if you decide to train in another martial art.

Personally, I think those people who 'knock' certain arts and deride them should have to experience a few sessions with a good instructor in that art before deciding firmly that they think that that particular style is cr*p.

On another martial arts forum that I visit there are often people who deride Shotokan, and claim that it is ineffective and wouldn't work in real life, or whatever. Usually the people who are slagging off a style the loudest are the ones who have had no training experience in that style.

I think that it does martial artists good to train with other styles occasionally, on seminars and the like. It stops Dan grades and those who have been training in only that style for a long period of time from becoming insular and holding onto the belief that 'my style is the best, everything else is useless'.

I've found that since adding my training in Aikido, Kobudo and my recent foray into Wing Chun, it has helped my Shotokan to become better. Even styles that can appear opposites ot would seem to have no influence on another way of training can actually help a persons initial martial art.

Anyway, I'm just a martial arts junkie. I can't help it - training is addictive! ;D

[demonwarrior]

Aefibird said:

I've found that since adding my training in Aikido, Kobudo and my recent foray into Wing Chun, it has helped my Shotokan to become better. Even styles that can appear opposites ot would seem to have no influence on another way of training can actually help a persons initial martial art.

Which of those arts do you still do, and why have you dropped the others?

[Aefibird]

DemonWarrior said:

Which of those arts do you still do, and why have you dropped the others?

I currently train seriously in Shotokan and Wing Chun. I practice those every day, either at the Dojo or Kwoon or at my home.

I also train in Kobudo, but not quite as regularly as the other two (maybe once or twice a week, more often if I'm on holiday from work).

I also train once a week at my karate instructors freestyle self-defence and fitness session (it's called Fight Club - a slightly unfortunate jokey name, but it stuck). From talking to Angela about OCI, it sounds similar to what they do there.

I dropped Aikido because of the lack of an instructor near to where I live.

[AngelaG]

Aefibird said:

I currently train seriously in Shotokan and Wing Chun. I practice those every day, either at the Dojo or Kwoon or at my home.

In your opinion how similar are these? (I know nowt about Wing Chun) Do you experience any difficulties with doing two arts at once?

[Aefibird]

AngelaG said:

In your opinion how similar are these? (I know nowt about Wing Chun) Do you experience any difficulties with doing two arts at once?

Well, as for a similarity, both styles are concerned with 'striking' rather than 'grappling' as their primary aim. There is very little ground work in WC - a few sweeping techniques, but that's about it. Most of the techniques are hand techniques, but there are some low kicks too, but not until higher levels.

In WC there are 3 forms (which are all exceedingly long - about twice to three times as long as, for example, Bassai Dai or Jion. ). The 3 forms contain all of the techniques and ideas found within Wing Chun.

There are no grades or belts and usually no formal uniform to wear at a Wing Chun club, although some schools incorporate the use of 3 coloured sashes, basically to symbolise which of the 3 forms a person is working on.

Drills are a heavy part of WC practice, as is partner drill work and Chi Sau (Sticking Hands).

The main difficulty I tend to have with Wing Chun is the punching. Punching is vertical fist and contact is made for some punches with the bottom two knuckles of the hand (ie the 3rd & 4th finger knuckles), instead of the first two knuckles, as in Shotokan.

Stances are different to Shotokan - some of the stances are much shorter and higher than Shotokan and some are even deeper and lower to the ground (as in one version of the horse stance, which is very long and low).

However, even though I sometimes struggle with the differences between WC and Shotokan, I enjoy my training in Wing Chun Kuen Kung Fu and I feel that it is helping my karate.

Go to
www.wingchunkuen.com/index
for more info, or see the website of the club I attend:
www.akhtars.co.uk

[AngelaG]

Aefibird said:

The main difficulty I tend to have with Wing Chun is the punching. Punching is vertical fist and contact is made for some punches with the bottom two knuckles of the hand (ie the 3rd & 4th finger knuckles), instead of the first two knuckles, as in Shotokan.

Interesting! Do people break their hands while practicing this? How do you line up your arm/wrist/hand in order for those to hit first? Is there a reason you strike like this?

I WC a linear style?

(Sorry about all the questions!) ;D

[thingy]

AngelaG said:

How do you line up your arm/wrist/hand in order for those to hit first? Is there a reason you strike like this?

I have no idea why I've decided to answer this, as i don't do kung fu and know nothing about it, but I believe that the fist is pulled upwards (think of doing a vertical punch) at the point of striking, exposing the 3rd and 4th knuckles.
Similar kind of effect to twisting your forearm into a block - an added bit of "umph" slapped onto the technique.

I shall now wait to be corrected by Aefibird, who clearly knows more than me about this.