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Post by AngelaG on Jan 14, 2005 9:55:47 GMT
By grappling do you mean restraints and escapes and drills where you "stick" to your partner after intercepting a technique to feel how they move, or full-on-rolling-around-on-the-ground-getting-all-sweaty type stuff?  Mick I mean whereby your partner has grabbed you; either whilst you are standing up, or on the floor. Angela |
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Post by Sionnagh on Jan 14, 2005 11:48:10 GMT
Yep, we do escapes from different grabs and holds. It's interesting to see students go "  hey this is like this bit of that kata" when they make a connection.  Mick |
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 14, 2005 17:46:54 GMT
Yep, we do escapes from different grabs and holds. It's interesting to see students go " hey this is like this bit of that kata" when they make a connection. Mick Yeah... those lightbulbs can be blinding at times! ;D |
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Post by Sionnagh on Jan 15, 2005 2:55:41 GMT
Although I also think that most don't think that deeply about anything. You know the ones, if it's not obviously grading related then they're really not interested.  Mick |
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Post by charmin on Feb 4, 2005 17:09:54 GMT
It seems to me ridiculous that people should have to take up a completely different MA just because they don't learn breakfalls, especially when throws and takedowns are in the karate bunkai. Why don't more karate teachers teach breakfalls? Is there a big failing somewhere in what karateka are learning? I am loathe to cross train because it would take away from my Shotokan time - but if there were big gaps in my training I guess I would have no other option. Luckily I can breakfall though ;D (although I hate it!!) Angela My club makes us learn ukemi waza from something like the 2nd or 3rd lesson. While I don't see it in the syllabus, I imagine our sensei would probably hold us back from progressing significantly if he didn't feel we could breakfall. I won't get into your debate about whether it should be taught or not, but I feel it is a useful skill (especially with the depth we do it in, all directions, breaking and rolling, flying breakfalls, etc) Back to cross training though, I'm a bit too much of a beginner to be doing it at the moment, but I intend to take up a second style soon. My main style is Goju, so I won't be taking Shotokan or Shorin-Ryu because they are too similar. I am contemplating ju/aiki jitsu because of the way you can control people without having to punch them in the face - the throwing and pinning seem like a better way to diffuse a situation should you find yourself in one. Even if I didn't want to cross train, I would. I train under the YKKF, who require you to hold the grade of 9th kyu or above in another style before you are allowed to grade to 1st dan. The reason I want to start early is because for your Nidan grading you must hold 7th kyu in a second style, and for Sandan you must hold the grade of Shodan in a second style |
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Post by Aefibird on Feb 8, 2005 16:52:58 GMT
charmin, what does YKKF stand for? Thanks!
Encouraging people to train in other MA's is a good idea IMO. Even if your style is "complete" and "teaches everything" then it can still be a good idea for folk to train in another style anyway - it counters MA prejudice and encourages you to see martial arts and ways of training in a new light. Plus, it's do some c0cky blackbelts good to go back to being a whitebelt again!! ;D
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Post by charmin on Feb 8, 2005 19:33:38 GMT
Yudansha Kobujitsu Karate-doh Federation It's an international federation that accepts entry from a number of different styles. From the syllabus, and my lessons, I'd say it's probably the toughest federation I've seen to grade in. (No, really, I'm not just saying it to look good  ) |
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Post by Aefibird on Feb 11, 2005 11:25:09 GMT
Thanks! Do you have a web address for them? It sounds like an interesting group! |
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Post by charmin on Feb 11, 2005 17:04:42 GMT
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seeker
KR White Belt
Posts: 14
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Post by seeker on Feb 14, 2005 0:12:30 GMT
When I first started martial arts I was learning both karate and judo and both arts had their usefulness. The most valuable thing I learned from judo was the breakfalls. Believe it or not I've slipped, tripped, or fallen off my bike (bicycling is my prefered aerobic exercise) then I have ever been attacked. Not to mention the fact that when I met my wife and she found out I knew judo she decided suddenly one day to see how good I was and attempted to throw me. Luckily for me I knew the counter for the throw and reversed it then countered her throwthere by earning her respect (she's half Irish, half Cherokee and worships Norse makes life interesting).
When Royce Gracie won the first three championships for UFC he largely did so by taking advantage of the fact that the "stand up and strike" styles he faced did not know how to deal with being taken down on the ground so definately the study of a grappling style helps.
As for studying another striking style I do have one anecdote about how I had a hard time with my kicks in the cat foot stance. My sensai tryed pretty hard to show me how the front, side and round house kicks start the same way in that stance but My balance was all off. Well, I was in high school at the time and they tried an experiment where students can take elective courses during their homeroom period. Of course I took martial arts as my elective. What I wasn't ready for was my math teacher was teaching Northern Mantis style Gung Fu. In that style all kicks start with the leg cocked like a standard front kick but from that position you can deliver a front, side or roundhouse kick. I never had problems with my cat foot stance again and even now if I want to throw out a little surprise I catch people antisipating a front kick only to have my kick suddly come around from the side rather then straight up the middle. Keeps them from antisepating and actually looking for whats happening.
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Post by AngelaG on Mar 29, 2005 7:01:35 GMT
They have an awful lot of keywords down at the bottom. Search engines tend to frown on this kind of practice and stop listing sites that do stuff like that. Anyway... are you in any of the photos? |
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Post by charmin on Mar 29, 2005 13:18:36 GMT
The whole site is a bit iffy when you consider HOW MANY computer science / multimedia design undergraduates we have in the club. At least one member is a professional web designer  I don't know who does the site. In the "latest photos" section there are a lot of grading photos from when I got my 9th kyu. I'm the skinhead, wearing a gi a tad too big for him, surrounded by short girls that make me look 7 feet tall. |
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Post by Andy on Jun 5, 2005 2:11:45 GMT
Does anyone on here train in another style of martial art as well as Shotokan? Or have you done so in the past? I've taken a few classes in Shotokan, but most of my experience has been in other arts. Definitely depth of perception. Learning one set of principles, and then being able to cross reference those with someone else's angle on things is tremendously valuable. Information overload perhaps. Too many different ideas all converging at once, but then again, that can be a good thing. Arts are less important than the individual. Van Gogh or Picasso would be worth a listen, but Rolph Harris possibly has less to offer?  It depends on your individual needs. In seeking a more complete solution, then the systematic grappling of Judo, KJJ or BJJ would be a logical choice. The more potentially aggressive Muay Thai is worth a look too. Best to work out what you need to buy, before spending hard earned cash. I'd like to qualify all of the above, by being clear in stating that, I have not only seen massive variation in the practice of Shotokan, but of every other art to date. |
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Post by AngelaG on Jun 5, 2005 10:38:12 GMT
Ok I have a question about grappling. This is not trolling or criticism of other styles, but a genuine question. How effective would it be in a real life situation? Most fights I have seen in the street involve one person going to the ground whilst the other person boots their head in. In addition to this they always seem to involve more than 2 protaganists (even if it's just the drunken bystander who has decided it'd be fun to get drawn in). From the little I have seen of grappling a trained grappler will try to take their opponent down to the ground as soon as possible, and then try to deal with them on the ground. Whereas someone trained in a striking art will try to deal with their opponent whilst stood up and only go to the ground if they fall over are pushed etc. I would have thought that for anyone the ground is a very bad place to be? The floor may be covered in glass etc. you have no real awareness of what's around you (and even if you do there is not a lot you can do from down there), you run the risk of any mates piling in and hitting/kicking you whilst you are down (after all it's only in the MA books they stand around and politely wait for you to finish!  , you even run the risk of some random person deciding to stick the boot in; you could get stabbed so easily at that distance (who knows what they are carrying in their back pocket)... well it just seems like a bad idea to go to ground. This is why I think that training in purely a grappling based art has limitations in usefulness with regards self-defence applications. when coming from a self-defence view would it not be better to train in a striking art primarily, and then maybe add grappling to the mix, in case the worst scenario ever happens and you do get taken down? Of course people train for different reasons, I am just talking about pure self-defence angles at the moment and throwing some thoughts into the mix. |
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Post by Andy on Jun 6, 2005 3:18:14 GMT
Ok I have a question about grappling. This is not trolling or criticism of other styles, but a genuine question. How effective would it be in a real life situation? No easy answer here. 'Real Life' situations are by definition alone, hard to quantify into absolutes. Depends on your definition of 'fight', but then we're usually talking about those with no training whatsoever. This is an all too common conclusion though. True also. The 'fringe' element is often more dangerous than the original antagonist. If grappling is all they know, then that could be true, but it would be a rare occurence that an experienced grappler would have no experience in other areas. All the more reason to be familiar with it, rather than hoping it will never happen? Someone truly trained in a striking art, will acknowledge the impact being reclined or otherwise encumbered will inevitably have on their ability to strike? Agreed. and for all the reasons you mention. You can't afford to ignore one or the other if your objective is self defence. Train both. Ignore the Stigma attached to that, and be safe in all ranges. The most obvious area of exploration for Grappling in SD is perhaps Anti-Rape. Especially important for females, but not exclusively so (it happens guys). Guard, side control and mount are all basic positions worth understanding in grappling, and may be essential in affording those with a good striking game, the opportunity to utilise it. Grappling can be as simple as an upright neck clinch, to the attempt to pin someone on the ground and either nullify their defenses, or break limbs, choke someone unconscious or in SD, perform the horizontal fandango. Ignore at your peril, but by no means throw the baby out with the bathwater and forget your longer range skills. Just get the job done. |
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hey this is like this bit of that kata" when they make a connection. 
)
I don't know who does the site.
, you even run the risk of some random person deciding to stick the boot in; you could get stabbed so easily at that distance (who knows what they are carrying in their back pocket)... well it just seems like a bad idea to go to ground.