Goju vs. Shotokan

[charmin]

This is not a troll.

(And because I said that, it can't possibly be.)

Seriously though. I'm 9th kyu Goju (read: my opinion doesn't count), and from what I have seen, Goju and Shotokan are mostly similar. The differences come in the kata (which I know very little about, other than my low opinion of Taikyoku Shodan ), and in the lack of Shotokan "flow".

It's going to be hard to express this but Goju, obviously, has the soft aspect (Goju = hard soft). From what I have seen, Shotokan doesn't. The example I see most often is a yoko uke, where the Shotokan one whips across very quickly and firmly, and the Goju one is more circular, with more of a redirection of force than merely battering their arm.

I have had senior students (all with some Shotokan experience) more or less say that Goju is better than Shotokan. They didn't say it exactly, but it's definitely what they were trying to convey. This is not entirely without justification either - our Sensei's first style is Shotokan, which he received Nidan in before becoming 4th Dan Goju. Why would somebody drop their 2nd dan art to take up another, unless he thought it was better? (I will, of course, be asking him when I get the chance).

Does anybody here have experience of both Goju and Shotokan and anything to say about this?

[Aefibird]

IMO, I don't think it's a case of "one is better than the other", it's more, which is better for YOU?

My own sensei has trained in and is a dan grade (either nidan or sandan, can't remember which) is Okinawan Goju ryu. He's also a yondan in shotokan, which is his primary style (although he's trained and graded with several).

He prefers aspects of shotokan over goju and other aspects of goju over similar areas in shotokan. It's a case of, for him, "what works, works" - 'ditch' the rest.

Anyway, it's probably more what floats your boat. If you prefer shotokan then great! If you prefer goju then that's great too. It's not so much about which style is better but can you use the tools that are there in your style?

Anyway, there are soft elements there in shotokan -along with circular movements, just like in goju. it's just that firstly, many clubs don't teach these aspects (there's so many "McDojo" shotokan clubs about, which is giving the art a bad name) and, secondly, many of the clubs that do incorporate the more "goju-like" (ahem!) aspects of Shotokan don't do so until students are brown or black belt and beyond.

Well, I've rambled a little there, so I'll stop now. Hope that made some sort of sense!


Edited for typos.

[dickclark]

Goju is so different as to be an other style (bad pun). Goju as a base has about 10 kata, a few more have been added after WWII (Gekisai Dai Ichi Basic kata No 1 and Gekisai Dai Ni Basic kata No 2 ). GoJu is ever so much more a close in system. On of the core principals is controled breathing, and dynamic tension. It also has the longest kata in Karate, Suparinpei, 108 moves, it is very repetive, but still 108 moves dude. Gojo also does hard training, that is they have training that requires you strike each other, not a good discription, but he idea is too harden the body. They 'test' (Shime) your stances and kata, that is you set a stance, and the teacher will push and shove you too insure that you have it set right, and there is higher level of this that is almost at the striking level, and it is noted that this must only be done by a master (read someone who know what the heck they are doing so they do not really kill you!).
Higher stances, a lot of open palms. Not anything like shotokan.

The names of their kata are:
Gekisai Dai Ichi (cut and slash nunber 1) should note here the kanja for Dia here is not the same as used for lets say Bassi Dai. Here it means 'number', rather than great or longer, bigger.
Gekisai Dai Ichi (cut and slash No 2 )
Saifa
Seiyunchin
Shisoshin
Sanseru
Sepai
Kururunfa
Sesan
Suparinpei 108 Positions (Master Kata)
Sanchin Three battles (Breathing Kata)
Tensho (Breathing Kata)

[subzero72]

I learn shotoakan karate but my sensei also teaches us kung fu too

[jadedragon]

In my Shotokan dojo we also learn sanchin when we get higher in rank.

[bob]

if taught properly no one style is inherantly better than another, there is only better for you. for example someone who weighs stone has no business in kickboxing if he is looking for self defense. i only have experience of shotokan to any large degree so ill tell you what i think there. i find shotokan karate has aspects of every other martial art i have witnessed. it is in my opinion a complete art. the major problem with shotokan is that in the past certain japanese instructors (one in particular) have decided that it should be done one way and one way only. that is extremely bad for the art. shotokan has moves and katas that use speed and accuracy and it has katas that use strength and power. all are necessary for training but with a very high proportion of shotokan instructors they dont teach the full art. if your instructor is big and strong, they teach the strength katas and techniques and ingnore the soft or fast ones. eg if they cant jump you will never learn unsu. if they have stretchy legs and speed then you can forget about the strength katas like hangetsu or sochin. the problem here is that if you are fast but not strong then its strength you need to work on. karate and any martial art do not work as "one size fits all" but need tailored to suit your own body and capabilities. unfortunately shotokan especially has forgotten this in a large proportion of cases.