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Post by Aefibird on Jan 24, 2006 19:41:04 GMT
I'm glad somebody does...  As for praying during the 'meditation' time, I'd say that as long as you have no outward sign then you can think whatever you like. The president/master probably finds praying & the sign of the cross 'offensive' as he thinks it is inapropriate to be doing those things during that set time period. It's a time period for reflection and contemplation and he more than likely doesn't want religion (of any sort, not just Catholicism/Christianity) brought into it. I'd say that if yoiu want to pray then fine. If not, then fine. As long as you are respecting the wishes of the instructor during the period of silence then your thoughts can be whatever you wish them to be. I have to say that I've occasionally said prayers during Mokuso, but I've also thought about what I want from Tesco and whose turn it is to buy the drinks at the bar downstairs. *blush* Don't get uptight about being asked to not make the sign of the cross; it's a little like being asked to not shout out or to not run about during Mokuso - all things that are potentially distracting to other students and could disturb the peace and silence of that contemplative time. As for wearing your gi to church... I reckon that Jesus was a karateka - he wore white and went barefoot... |
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Post by maskedman on Jan 24, 2006 21:28:23 GMT
Well...we I had a few conversations, with a few other people...the man in question is part of the federation...not a karateka...never stepped on the mat in his life..but is like a parent....his problem is with catholics...because his religious affiliation (Jehovahs Witness) are pope bashers...I have approached sensei and he says it is alright...and that it is right to give god the nod every time we feel like he needs one!
As for making the sign of the cross...well angela if you were catholic..it is all muscle memory...I dont think many of us make the conscious effort to make the sign...more like we bow to pray and up it copmes like a instinctive strike..or..block!
I have senseis OK...so I am just going to go on doing what I do!
*bows respectfully*
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 24, 2006 21:54:27 GMT
As for making the sign of the cross...well angela if you were catholic..it is all muscle memory...I dont think many of us make the conscious effort to make the sign...more like we bow to pray and up it copmes like a instinctive strike..or..block! I was raised a Catholic, in Catholic Schools - including one which was a convent school... I have to say I never subconsciously made the sign of the cross. But then maybe it's just a difference in the way we are taught over here... if it's ok with your sensei then there is no problem anyway... |
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Post by maskedman on Jan 24, 2006 22:03:41 GMT
As for making the sign of the cross...well angela if you were catholic..it is all muscle memory...I dont think many of us make the conscious effort to make the sign...more like we bow to pray and up it copmes like a instinctive strike..or..block! I was raised a Catholic, in Catholic Schools - including one which was a convent school... I have to say I never subconsciously made the sign of the cross. But then maybe it's just a difference in the way we are taught over here... if it's ok with your sensei then there is no problem anyway... Yeah Sensei said its ok...but this is not about MA..this is about his religion not liking mine! As for the cross...really...man it is a reflex to me...I think it is just different personality...I do go to church daily...the parish is just down the street...mind you in Fiji everything is just down the road!..I visit with the priests often..I do work for the church..I spend alot of time in prayer..saying novenas etc! I was going to the seminnnary to be a preist.....now dont look so shocked... but my calling I suppose took me doiwn a different path! *bows respectfully* |
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Post by nkudahc on Jan 25, 2006 2:46:25 GMT
Yeah Sensei said its ok...but this is not about MA..this is about his religion not liking mine! what the crap??? you know you posted it in the general martial arts forum right...on a website called "karate resource"..... |
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Post by maskedman on Jan 25, 2006 4:23:54 GMT
Yeah Sensei said its ok...but this is not about MA..this is about his religion not liking mine! what the crap??? you know you posted it in the general martial arts forum right...on a website called "karate resource"..... At first I thought that it had to do with the meditation and my praying...but it turned out that he just had a problem with Catholics....when I approached sensei he said that I should go for it! *bows respectfully* |
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Post by andym on Jan 25, 2006 9:25:16 GMT
One religion hating another religion isn't a new concept! But I do think your Jehova friend should be more tolerant. It's attitudes like his that cause countries to go to war.
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Post by random on Jan 25, 2006 23:30:19 GMT
The scales are still quite balanced.
I have to say this sounds like typical intolerant tolerance, which is inevitably coupled with arrogance. You expect a Witness to be tolerant of your religion and its observances and yet you have no consideration for his feelings and his religion. The Dojo training hall what ever you call it, has no place for religious expression, whatever the Sensei says, ecumenism can be scrubbed out by attitudes like this.
Also, if making the sign of the cross has become a reflex action then, by Holt Mother Churches definition (Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the paper) it is an empty gesture and needs to be re-examined staring with a full act of Sacramental Penitence for having been so lax in ones religious observance.
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Post by maskedman on Jan 26, 2006 0:05:36 GMT
It is not my being intolerant....a Jehovahs Witness comes to my door on staurday morning..I dont let the dogs out...I invite them in my house....I offer them a cold drink and eats..I listen to what they say....I tell them I have my own faith..and then I thank them for there time...time and time again they return and time and time again the ritual is the same...I live amongst his religion..my wife follows the same religion as do all my in-laws....I cannot be accused of intolerance....my making the sign of the cross is not an empty gesture to me.....I have religious freedom and I dont go busting into a JW meeting and tell them that they need to have the sacrament of the holy eucharist at every time...I dont try to convert anyone....I just want to quietly go about doing what I do....and practice my freedoms.....that I have my masters permission to proceed with..and he is not a catholic either! I cannot take instruction in the Dojo from a man who has never stepped on the mat..and is hatefull to my religion...I am not physically hurting him...or spiritually.....my making the sign of the cross..does in no way affect his faith...but he tries to bulldoze his onto me...that is not right!
As for my not making the sign...even with the senseis permission...then who runs the dojo?
*bows respectfully*
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Post by random on Jan 26, 2006 2:27:02 GMT
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Post by maskedman on Jan 26, 2006 2:58:57 GMT
Okay...I said I DONT let the dogs out..which is what some people do...I am not rude to them. Perhaps making the sign of the cross is empty to you, but not to me..I wouldnt know how to explain it to you! My stance comes from being given the go ahead by my sensei..if he asked me to stop I would, because it is his Dojo not the parent of a student that goes there! I have clearance/permission so I will carry on, not as an act of defiance, but as an act of the time i commune with god...true at my convenience! I am obviously not so well read as you..so I dont have all the stuff you are talking about! To be honest without quotes I dont know what you are so fired up about I have tried to explain myself...but you are obviously attacking me! As for my priest he is: {edit} |
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 26, 2006 7:44:12 GMT
People please calm down. I am uncomfortable with something as important as religion being discussed on a Martial Arts forum. People are obviously becoming agitated and irate with each other, and I cannot foresee this going anywhere productive. Please let's keep the personal attacks off the forum. I am going to edit some of the threads as I think some of the attacks are very personal and have the potential to create much bad feeling; also I think it's not right to post someone else's personal details on here.
I am locking the thread. This is not a comment on anyone's personal beliefs but rather an attempt to try and drag the forum back on to matters which are more relevant to the purpose of this forum.
Please PM me if you have any comments or questions to ask.
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