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Post by maskedman on Jan 24, 2006 1:03:39 GMT
I am a Roman Catholic...well when we have times of meditation...I got caught saying prayers when the class is meditating..in the times when you must reflect on the things you have learned..."MOKOSOI" I think its called in karate. I just say a quick thank you to God that we had a good session and that no one was hurt..and if someone was that he wasnt hurt to bad..and to ask him to help me absorb all I learnt that day! I also begin my session with a quick prayer..for everyones safety!
A senior person of the Federation pointed it out, he said that it was disrespectfull to make the sign of the cross while meditating...I dont see that I am doing anything wrong...In all other factors i am one of the best students, not in terms of I can kick butt....but I make it my point to observe ettiquette...I never talk unless we are asked if we have questions...i will attempt everything the masters say without complaint and i suck it up as much as I can...except for the days when they want to work you into the ground! I know what it means to stand before a master and the things that need to be done to show respect
I was interested in your take on this disrespect because I take the time to pray during meditation!
*bows respectfully*
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Post by nkudahc on Jan 24, 2006 2:07:08 GMT
to me meditation before class is just a way to clear my mind, forget about everything outside of class so that i can focus on the things i'm about to do, then again after class to clear my mind and pick back up the things i have to do outside of karate. i've never been taught that meditation has any religous implications...prehaps you are trying to make it out to be more than it is?
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Post by maskedman on Jan 24, 2006 3:14:18 GMT
I think you are missing my point.....my point is that i use that quiet time to thank god and ask his help...but the president finds the fact that I make the sign of the cross to be offensive! What I believe about meditation is not the issue!
*bows respectfully*
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Post by nkudahc on Jan 24, 2006 3:27:55 GMT
does he find it offensive or just not what meditaion before a martial arts class is for?
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Post by maskedman on Jan 24, 2006 3:43:41 GMT
does he find it offensive or just not what meditaion before a martial arts class is for? A good question......I havent considered it...I dont know if it is my religious affiliation or the fact that I do it during meditation after class...but we were told it was a time for reflection..and that is how I choose to reflect! I suppose what I want to know is what does the meditation after the class symbolise in other dojos..maybe I am missing something! *bows respectfully* |
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 24, 2006 7:46:44 GMT
Perhaps he dislikes it because many people already connect the bow and meditation with religious connotations, and he does not want to propogate the myth. So when he sees you making the sign of the cross he is worried that potential new students will think that all the mokuso, bowing etc. is religious and maybe get put off if they are not of that faith. I don't see why you can't pray without makig the sign of the cross though? After all he cannot monitor what you are thinking.
Mokuso is a private thing, each individual will use it differently. How you use it is up to you, but perhaps it is only the more overt signs that are unwelcome?
Edited for spelling mistakes
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Post by random on Jan 24, 2006 9:52:44 GMT
Meditation has been a grey area for a lot of people for a great many different reasons. I think that these are mainly founded on ignorance and the failure of teachers to teach how to meditate.
I would say that the few minutes at the beginning or end of a class is not even close to a decent meditation, and if one was doing it as a religious observance I would so it was holy inadequate.
If you as an individual want to spend those few minutes thanking God for the gifts He has bestowed on you then that is your business. Making out outward symbols of devotion is not a personal thing but a personnel thing; it affects everybody in the training arena.
This is a potential mind field, and it could quite easily develop into a battle of religious observance, and I have seen this happen in parts of West Yorkshire. This is very sad for MA in general.
Perhaps like the early church you should come up with a sign that means something to you and to God, that wouldn’t mean anything to anyone else. This way you don’t deny your faith that would be unthinkable. However there is really no need for an outward show, it is what is in the heart that God sees and what God knows, there are too many empty gestures around.
Also Benedict in his rule says that all action is prayer, yet you wouldn’t make the sign of the cross at every rest period, or after washing the car, or doing the windows. Perhaps, as a suggestion, you might be better served asking your Priest to offer a Thanksgiving Mass, say once a month that way you would be taking part in the greatest form of prayer the Church has.
St Francis said ‘go out and preach the Gospel, and if you have to use words’ you need to decide if your actions are the best actions to serve God’s purpose. Would they make people feel closer to God or alienate them?
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Post by andym on Jan 24, 2006 10:04:41 GMT
How would your priest feel if you did MA in the middle of a mass? Maybe best to leave the praying to church and the meditation to the dojo.  |
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Post by random on Jan 24, 2006 10:21:03 GMT
How would your priest feel if you did MA in the middle of a mass? Maybe best to leave the praying to church and the meditation to the dojo. There isn’t a problem with offering up a little prayer during meditation or at any other time, but it should be a private and personal thing and should not give anyone else need for concern, because they shouldn’t know you’re doing it. But I get your point, In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. OOSS with a deep bow. ;D |
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 24, 2006 12:04:05 GMT
How would your priest feel if you did MA in the middle of a mass? With or without the gi? |
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Post by andym on Jan 24, 2006 12:24:25 GMT
Sunday best!
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 24, 2006 12:33:28 GMT
Ah the Tokaido....
In all seriousness though, I still don't see why if you want a little quiet word with God there should be any problem, but I also do not see why there would be a need for the sign of the cross after... in the same way I suspect you don't sit with your hands together whilst in mokuso.
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Post by random on Jan 24, 2006 13:06:14 GMT
Are the adverts at the top of the page generated by key words or is it s spooky coincidence?
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Post by AngelaG on Jan 24, 2006 13:19:16 GMT
Lol... Keyword generated....
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Post by andym on Jan 24, 2006 13:47:42 GMT
'God Loves You'
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