Traditional Politeness

[AngelaG]

Just out of interest, in your dojo is it policy to turn away when you fix your gi? Do you do anything else? For example, I went to one seminar elsewhere and my belt came untied, I turned away and started fixing it, and my partner who was from that dojo became quite agitated that I had not knelt whilst tidying myself up! This is something we don't do at my dojo, and I certainly wasn't being intentionally disrespectful. If someone trained at my dojo and was unaware of our protocol I certainly wouldn't lecture them on it, IMO that's bad manners as they are our guests.

What other little bits of protocol does your dojo observe, and what are your thoughts on all that?

[Andy]

We only had a 'turn away' rule, whan an opponent was injured.
One way of looking at that would be that; we didn't want to revel in the results of our violence, or our opponents defeat.

As for adjusting personal garb, then that was no different from the courtesy extended in any society, their morals pertaining..

[AngelaG]

The problem is that there is no hard and fast rule, so what is acceptable in one dojo may not be acceptable in the next, and as there are no list of rules handed out when you go and train elsewhere it can be very difficult to find out what goes. If someone makes a faux pas then surely a quiet word is all that is needed, indeed if that!

[andym]

I agree Angela. If their etiquette rules weren't explained to you then how can they expect you to observe them? In our dojo a quick 'adjustment' doesn't require turning away but if you need to re-tie your belt of tuck your gi in then we turn away and kneel down.

[AngelaG]

LOL @ tuck your gi in... my first thoughts before I realised what you meant was the gi top tucked into the trousers... Karate in a Simon Cowell stylee. ;D ;D

[AngelaG]

andym said:

I agree Angela. If their etiquette rules weren't explained to you then how can they expect you to observe them? In our dojo a quick 'adjustment' doesn't require turning away but if you need to re-tie your belt of tuck your gi in then we turn away and kneel down.

yeah, when you came to our dojo there must have been things that we did that were unfamiliar to you, but if people come down for a lesson or a seminar I don't think it's right to force your protocol on them. Politeness would mean that the other person will most likely observe what's going on and attempt to copy as much as possible, but if they leave one or two things out it's not the end of the world, and IMO not worth picking them up. I don't think we'd get many people revisiting if we nagged them every time they trained with us.

[andym]

There wasn't that much difference to be honest, just the kneeling thing you have going on.

[Aefibird]

We don't have a hard or fast rule in my dojo about it - as long as you're not stopping to adjust your gi half way through a kata just because you're knackered and want a bit of a break then everything else is OK. As long as any gi adjustment etc is left until a natural 'break' in class (or if sparring before and after, unless it is summat major like your trousers are falling down) and as long as you're not faffing with your belt/top when Sensei is speaking then it's pretty much do what you will.

We've a few people at the dojo who come from other styles. One guy had an elaborate bowing thing going on when he first started with us, but he's dropped that a bit now. It's not something we do but we don't make a big fuss if people come into our dojo with little habits from other clubs. It's just their way of doing things.

As long as no-one is being overtly rude then I see no problem. Especially if that person is a visitor - karateka aren't mind readers, we're not expected to be instantly aware of all the ettiquette and 'rules' that apply at other clubs, especially if that particular little ritual doesn't take place at our own dojo.

[subzero72]

we do turn around and fix our gi but my sensei says it meant to be messed up as long we are no fixing the gi contsantly

[dojo]

We seem to be more lax with some of the dojo etiquette stuff. We do bow a lot, but we are not as strict as arranging your uniform is concerned.

[Shorin Ryu Sensei]

If our belt or gi becomes "untidy" and needs attention...we just fix it. We don't turn away or kneel. We're a pretty laid back dojo, which fits my personality. My sensei didn't go that formal, and when working with the head of the system on two occasions, I never saw anyone else do that either. You're just straightening your clothing for cryin' out loud...unless of course you need to turn away because you're falliong OUT of your clothing...then sure, turn away (except you of course Angela *wink*)

[AceRimmer]

We are laid back, can't see the point of turning away.

[pasmith]

Adjusting your Gi while knelt down sounds like a skill in itself!

I'm not big on formal asian ettiquette. We bow at the start of class, at the end and when sparring and that's about it.
On grading days we do more bowing and even bow to a picture of Kancho Soeno which personally I hate doing. Can't stand that kind of long distance hero worship.
I fully respect the guy for founding his own style of karate and his past achievements in Kyokushin but don't feel the need to bow at his picture.

At BJJ/MMA you shook hands before grappling and touched gloves before sparring and that was that. I called my BJJ instructor by his first name. Adjusting your Gi went on all the time (in BJJ your Gi is constantly being ragged about) so turning or kneeling would be highly impractical. If your belt fell of most of the time it stayed off.

[Aefibird]

pasmith said:

Adjusting your Gi while knelt down sounds like a skill in itself!

lol, not half! We used to have to do the "turn away and kneel" thing at Aikido. Trying to adjust a heavy Aikido gi whilst kneeling is no mean feat. Then there was all the bowing that accompanied stepping on and off the mat everytime you wanted to do anything. I think some folk spent more time bowing than doing anything else.

[pasmith]

I do get the impression that some people try to "out asian" the asian people by bowing all the time.
We are westerners (mainly?) and not bowing is NOT seen as sign of disrespect. We are not so hung up on our places in society so bowing means less to us. Respect to us is a much more subtle thing than in the east. Or at least it seems so to me.
Personally I see bowing in at the start as the time to put on my fighting head and commit to the task in hand and bowing out at the end is the reverse of that procedure.
Bowing during class is a sign that we are both ready (like touching gloves, shaking hands etc) and I attach no more significance to it than that. It just has a more eastern flavour.
To me ettiquette is the a very small part of MA and as long as someone doesn't act like a dick, talk down to me, keep a technique on after a tap or generally take the urine then I'm to concerned with my own training to take much notice.