Favourite bunkai for gedan barai

[pasmith]

Seeing as Gedan Barai is so prevelent in kata (especially early kata) I'm currently looking for 2 or 3 applications that I can have in mind when performing it.

What do you guys make of it?

It would be cool if we could come up with bunkai that follows well into a stepping punch too (as in kata).

(I know physical movements can be very hard to write down but we can ahve a go)

[AngelaG]

There are a couple of video applications for gedan barai on the Karate Resource website. Some are made against standard oizuki, in order to make them more recognisable to karateka, but can easily be adapted to work against a more likely attack.

In the first one the hikite hand releases his arm for his safe keeping. It may well be kept in a real altercation.

Also in the second one the follow up punch is done at full extention in order to make it recognisable. To make it work for real this would be a lot closer in.

[Aefibird]

I know there's plenty of applications that Gedan Barai can be used for, but my favourite one is as a good ol' fashioned strike to the groin or inner thigh. Simple but can be very effective.
I also like its use in throws.

[pasmith]

Cheers guys.
I particularly like the takedown application.

[AngelaG]

As with anything I would only take my hands down low if it meant that the attacker was in such a position that I no longer have to protect my face. With such simple techniques it is easier to try and study the principles behind the technqiue that make it work.

[nkudahc]

you should check out the book "75 Down Blocks"...i think it might be just what you're looking for

[Aefibird]

nkudahc said:

you should check out the book "75 Down Blocks"...i think it might be just what you're looking for

I have that book - it is very interesting reading. Lots of good stuff in there.

[pasmith]

One reason I ask this question is to do with the way I "organise" techniques in a theoretical frame work.
I have a few techniques that I consider my main artillery. The techniques I do most of the time or the techniques I find most effective for me. Right cross, low leg kick, armbar, RNC that kind of thing.
Then I have support techniques. Techniques that I like but don't use that often. Often they are techniques that flow from main artillery techniques or complement them in some way.
Then finally I have techniques that I know but hardly ever use.
When I learn a new techniques I try and see where it fits into what I already know. Will it become main artillery or forever be a support?

How this fits with my initial question is that gedan barai seems to be a fundamental Karate technique. It's everywhere and in many kata.
It seems to me that it appears way out of proportion to it's actual usefulness for fighting. Much of the bunkai seems a little ineffective or for quite rare fighting occurances like wrist grabs and such like.
I'm looking for some bunkai that I consider to worthy of making it main artillery (as the creators of Karate obviously deemed it to be).
Bunkai that can work in the bread butter world advancing ona guy and taking him out.
To be honest I've not seen much of that.

[darkstar]

when i moved on from karate to other systems i found the automatic Gidan Barai instinct an easy way to get to get hit.

it's a big committed block that leaves that side very exposed. for example a good thai fighter will only let you get away with it once, then they'll provoke you to do it again with a low kick and be saving the big right or elbows for the moment you do it again.

it took me quite a while to "unlearn" this automatic reflex.

[AngelaG]

Don't forget that when examining something like gedan barai that the downwards portion of the technique is only half of the waza. From close quarters the upward portion could be a strike to the back of the head, and then a neck wench on the way down.

[AngelaG]

darkstar said:

it's a big committed block that leaves that side very exposed. for example a good thai fighter will only let you get away with it once, then they'll provoke you to do it again with a low kick and be saving the big right or elbows for the moment you do it again.

Only if you teach/learn it as a block. In my opinion there are a million more suited things that can be taught before you come to a block.

[random]

Beginners would probably get caught using this as a block, but as one progresses in the art, as Angela says, there a million other things that can be taught, it is just an easy starting point for beginners.

[darkstar]

would you say 3 & 1/2 years hard training 2 or 3 times a week including a lot of full contact kumite was beginner level?

grade wise, granted i was never interested in belts and only took one grading in that whole time because the first belt was blue and i liked that colour better than white.

and the best part of it was that it used to really irritate the the high grades getting whupped by a blue belt in front of the rest of the class.

i gradually came to the realisation that often belts dont mean much apart from possible proof of how long you've been training in something. certainly in real life combat scenarios.

the amount of child black-belts in Japanese / Korean MAs is another indication of this IMO.

[AngelaG]

darkstar said:

would you say 3 & 1/2 years hard training 2 or 3 times a week including a lot of full contact kumite was beginner level?

If you were still getting taught that gedan barai was nothing more than a block.....

[darkstar]

? maybe you do it different? doesnt seem like much of a standard attack technique? ..and there are many (Chinese mainly) styles that would just love you to cross your arm across your body ala the higher part of Gedan Barai and would really punish you for doing so.

i'd be relatively confident most karateka could be tempted into using it against low or leg kicks though?