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Post by AngelaG on Nov 27, 2005 19:20:16 GMT
lol, BS is it? ok Angela as long as you're confident, that's all that matters. i'd be interested to to see exactly how youre going to jam a thai roundhouse using your leg but with both feet on the floor, and pretty confident if you lifted a shin against mine you'd regret it, but you strike me like youre spoiling for an argument now so lets leave it there. Let's. I'm not spoiling for an argument, I just think that you're so blinded by your own dogma you can't see the wood for trees, and you don't realise how ridiculous you sound by your own contradictory statements. But that's just my opinion. If you want to believe that all karateka are crap compared to any other MA, then go ahead. I personally have no interest in trying to prove anything to a person like you. It's a waste of my time and effort. ;D |
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Post by darkstar on Nov 28, 2005 13:51:17 GMT
lol, i couldnt have put it better myself. when have i ever said that? ..you appear to have such a massive chip on your shoulder that as a PT i would recommend supplementary training of the other shoulder girdle and traps etc to address the imbalance carrying it around all the time will cause. it's not my fault you doubt your art so much you're unwilling to discuss it without getting shirty. "a person like me". lol! ..definitely don't waste any time or effort on my behalf Angela, i'll be just fine  |
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Post by AngelaG on Nov 28, 2005 13:54:08 GMT
 LOL |
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Post by andym on Nov 28, 2005 13:58:38 GMT
It seems to me Darkstar that every thread you post in decsends into argument. You seem to have a natural knack of getting people's backs up...maybe you don't realise you're doing it, maybe you do...I'll never know.
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Post by random on Nov 30, 2005 0:01:58 GMT
How do we know that it is a downward block? How do we know anything is actually a block? Or is everything an attack. This got me thinking about the way I approach my karate, I don’t block arms and legs, as those who spar with me can testify, it isn’t the counter that hurts initially, but the block, if it is a kick then I attack the weakest part, likewise with a punch, this approach will not suit everyone, it suits me.
I can parry an attack, but that leaves the opponent thinking about the punch or elbow they have chambered and is ready to throw at my head or body. I’d rather leave them thinking about their leg/arm; it isn’t how I chamber it. I don’t always cross my arms, but how is it delivered.
This has developed over a long time and I can probably trace it back to my early days in Thai boxing, an extension of the body conditioning, all the sit ups in the world will protect the sternum, and likewise ankles, wrists and elbows are always going to be venerable.
So, perhaps, it isn’t so much how we train but also the synthesis in how it is perceived by teacher and student.
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Post by pasmith on Nov 30, 2005 11:01:35 GMT
"i'd be interested to to see exactly how youre going to jam a thai roundhouse using your leg but with both feet on the floor"
I did Thai for a few years and there's actually a counter to the low round kick where you move in (to try and get inside the power arc) and tense the thigh, let the kick land and counter with a straight right. Both feet are on the floor at the time. Lots of people get knocked down or out with this kind of counter. It's not an exact science and you have to be fairly certain that the kick won't put you down (or be prepared to ship some damage) but it certainly can be done. Not every round kick has to be met with a shin block. In fact the less shin blocks you have to do the better.
Not taking sides here but thought I'd throw that in.
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Post by darkstar on Dec 2, 2005 14:14:28 GMT
"i'd be interested to to see exactly how youre going to jam a thai roundhouse using your leg but with both feet on the floor" I did Thai for a few years and there's actually a counter to the low round kick where you move in (to try and get inside the power arc) and tense the thigh, let the kick land and counter with a straight right. Both feet are on the floor at the time. Lots of people get knocked down or out with this kind of counter. It's not an exact science and you have to be fairly certain that the kick won't put you down (or be prepared to ship some damage) but it certainly can be done. Not every round kick has to be met with a shin block. In fact the less shin blocks you have to do the better. Not taking sides here but thought I'd throw that in. yo mr smith. good to see my old TF mates on here  i know that one you're talking about. ..don't think it's a shotokan technique though? could be mistaken. that can work ok, but if i see someone going to close range & move towards me as the kick starts, i'd always try to follow over the top of his lead arm with an elbow from the same side as the kick. ..you can get your whole bodyweight into it because your kicking leg hasn't touched down yet as the elbow connects. it also has the effect of turning you sideays around them and hopefully taking the power out of their counter if not evading it completely. |
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Post by AngelaG on Dec 2, 2005 14:22:01 GMT
i know that one you're talking about. ..don't think it's a shotokan technique though? could be mistaken. Yup could be Perhaps because you are too worried about labels and stereotypes - which is what I have been trying to point out to you from the start. |
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Post by darkstar on Dec 2, 2005 14:44:18 GMT
i know that one you're talking about. ..don't think it's a shotokan technique though? could be mistaken. Yup could be Perhaps because you are too worried about labels and stereotypes - which is what I have been trying to point out to you from the start. lol. ok, ok. ...what's that called in Shotokan then? |
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Post by rikimaru on Dec 2, 2005 14:58:50 GMT
I hate using my shins to block low kicks. It makes me cringe all the time. To be honest I would rather let the kicks land. I once raised my knee to try and shin block a low kick and got kicked in the knee cap. It was utter agony and I was limping around for days.
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Post by darkstar on Dec 2, 2005 15:05:09 GMT
I hate using my shins to block low kicks. It makes me cringe all the time. To be honest I would rather let the kicks land. I once raised my knee to try and shin block a low kick and got kicked in the knee cap. It was utter agony and I was limping around for days. haha. yes, i remember that. nothing a couple of years on the tractor tyres wont sort out Rikimaru. but if you're too lazy or the conditioning hurts too much then yes i agree just let it hit your thigh. you wont be able to use it too well after one or two good ones but it's better than that shin pain.  |
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Post by rikimaru on Dec 2, 2005 15:13:32 GMT
Well obviously, shin blocks cant be avoided in most cases. It's better than trying to block with your arm and geting kicked in the face or your arm broken. However, sometimes I just raise my leg a bit from the ground and let my leg give a little with the kick. If your leg is planted firmly on the ground then the kick will hurt a lot more because your leg can't give way and will be trapped between your body and the floor. It's really hard to explain in words, but sort of turning the leg so that the kick hits more to the front of the thigh instead of the side whilst raising the leg and pulling it in inwards as the kick lands will lessen the effect.
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Post by darkstar on Dec 2, 2005 15:23:02 GMT
Well obviously, shin blocks cant be avoided in most cases. It's better than trying to block with your arm and geting kicked in the face or your arm broken. However, sometimes I just raise my leg a bit from the ground and let my leg give a little with the kick. If your leg is planted firmly on the ground then the kick will hurt a lot more because your leg can't give way and will be trapped between your body and the floor. It's really hard to explain in words, but sort of turning the leg so that the kick hits more to the front of the thigh instead of the side whilst raising the leg and pulling it in inwards as the kick lands will lessen the effect. agreed. knowing this is the sign of someone who's had to deal with full power leg kicks. you just kind of work it out for yourself after a while. the power dissipates into the leg without the "impact" you get whilst stood on it properly. i dont usually share this info though, because as an instructor you have to hold something back to still be able to whup your students after theyve gotten good. |
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bob
KR Orange Belt
Posts: 28
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Post by bob on Dec 13, 2005 0:01:27 GMT
there are a few major assumptions being taken here by people who are not trained in karate to any degree and unfortunately some who are karateka.
1st - gedan barai = downward sweep (as in ashi barai) it is not a block and even if it was no karate block shouold meet bone on bone. all are deflections. thats why small guys and gals can do them. if its bone on bone the biggest guy wins. thats for others, not karate.
2nd - basics = people here are assuming that bunkai is the same as basics. basics are taught for many reasons, direct use in a fight is not one of them. first of all no high grade karateka should ever use 2 hands for a block unless they are training. 2 handed blocks are for exercising the correct muscles and for teaching beginners how to move their body. the same goes for punches. one example here, whenever you catch someones leg, no matter what style you are doing what technique are you using if its not gedan barai?
3 bunkai = you mention katas here. people have great misunderstanding of katas. some people think that katas are fights. they are but not directly. they are training exercises that are based on fights. they are for exercising your body while practicing technique. thats why they are all balanced in both directions and why techniques are in basic form. the other misconception is that the real moves are "hidden" in katas. they are not. anyone with knowledge of karate can work out what the application of any technique is, and not only that my application will be different than yours because we are not the same size, shape, strength, speed or weight. my application will suit me, yours will suit you. its worthwhile for me to learn yours and you to learn mine but ultimately only i can decide what to do in a situation because only i know if i can lift this guys weight or not or whatever the technique is. katas are an exercise to build strength, speed and coordination and a tool for you to work your mind.
last my favourite application for gedan barai ( before i start i know that this wouldnt work against a 20 stone giant and i also know that it would only work in the right situation and i also know that if the situation required a shin block or a headbutt or a slap in the jaw, THATS WHAT I WOULD DO)
sweep down with a strike to the inside of the knee (this needs a deep stance but dont confuse deep with long, just bend the knee more) putting your opponent off balance, turn your hand and catch the leg behind the knee, keep hold as you move into oitsuki, using the hand holding the knee to lift and strike with the punch as your opponent goes down. this needs very good timing but is very effective if you can pull it off.
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