Teaching kata/bunkai

[AngelaG]

From talking to various people on forums it seems there are two main ways of teaching kata bunkai.

The first is to teach the kata and then later on to teach bunkai to the individual moves. The second is to teach techniques, and if the students see correlations back to the moves in the kata they do, and if they don't at least they have technqiues they can use in self-defence. I would guess a third way is to teach principles and to get the students to come up with techniques incorporating the principles.

What do you think is the best way to teach/learn kata bunkai, for what purpose, and why?

[random]

I don’t know if it is the best way, but I have been taught part of the kata, then the bunkai, then another part, more bunkai, then another, using each stage as a building block for the next and helping to form a mental picture of what one might use a technique for (back to that crescent kick). Later on, when students were more advanced, or had at least advanced past that kata they would be expected to think for themselves and tp come up with new ideas to build on what had been taught. I also like to teach kata this way, probably because it is how I learnt to do it.

Now, through experience and imagination I am always thinking about what a technique or movement is about and how it could be used, interpreted.

[andym]

Don't do much Bunkai so my comment may be slightly biased. I would have thought learning the Kata first would be better, then you can break it down to teach Bunkai.

[AngelaG]

Random, would you say your training was more principle led, or more technique led?

[random]

That’s the way I learn in my new club, I think, (if I am wrong I am sure I shall be corrected), learn the kata then break it down, to be fair, I am happy with either approach as long as what one gets given is quality stuff.

[AngelaG]

What I mean is, when the kata is broken down and a move is extrapolated are the students given reasons why the move works, and if it's not working for them what principles they are failing to see in order to make it work? Or is it "this move does this".

You see I think once you get an idea of several core principles, and you learn about how the body moves, how this changes in relation with what the other person is, body dynamics, how to strengthen yourself and weaken them etc. it means that it should be easy to come up with workable bunkai of your own.... possibly.... lol

[AngelaG]

Are people more likely to learn and remember stuff they have come up with themselves - rather than being spoonfed?

[andym]

Being spoonfed is ok......up to a certain point. But there must come a time when you're gonna have to think for yourself, otherwise you'll never improve and find you own 'style' as it were. Personally I learn more by thinking for myself.

[AngelaG]

andym said:

Being spoonfed is ok......up to a certain point. But there must come a time when you're gonna have to think for yourself, otherwise you'll never improve and find you own 'style' as it were. Personally I learn more by thinking for myself.

I think that a lot of people do. But I also think that Western society as a whole demands immediate answers. I think it can be quite a fine balance between supplying what they want against giving what they need.

[random]

Spoon fed is very important at the beginning but a student has to explore and adapt bunkai for themselves, I can still get away with brute force and ignorance, where someone smaller might need more of a technical approach?

And having said that I now find myself looking at bunkai from a less crash bang wallop approach, nothing to do with my age, more my knees.

I think it would be a good benchmark for grading improvement, looking at the development of bunkai and what a student can think up for themselves and effectively demonstrate.

[random]

I think what I am trying to say is that personally I may only have worked out bunkai that suits me now, but, like the guy who will demonstrate 3 different bunkai for any technique, I may have only found one or two and need to go looking again, but to this I first had to be spoon fed a certain amount of info first. It is how we are educated, O levels (gcse’s for the kids) (11+ for the really old) where we are spoon fed, A levels were it is applied, degree we are spoon fed, MA PHD etc where it is applied. We need the correct building blocks and more importantly the correct foundations from which to start building.

[AngelaG]

Hmmm.

And back to the original question is the best way of constructing those building blocks:

Kata - Bunkai - Application
Application - Kata - Application
Application - Kata - Bunkai - Application
Principles - Kata - Bunkai - Application

Or a variation on those themes? Or something completely different? Would it depend on the reasons why you are studying the kata (i.e. for more academic reasons Vs self-defence training)?

What about mix and match? People learn in different ways, so perhaps several of these angles need to be approached?

[AngelaG]

andym said:

Don't do much Bunkai so my comment may be slightly biased. I would have thought learning the Kata first would be better, then you can break it down to teach Bunkai.

Do you work on bunkai personally?

[andym]

Not as a rule...but it does interest me!

[random]

angelag said:

Random, would you say your training was more principle led, or more technique led?

Sorry Angela I missed this question earlier.

My initial answer would be principle as I have yet to meet anyone whose technique is perfect, some are good, some are very good, but perfection has yet to be reached.

I think that if students grasp the principle behind something, and if they can then build this into a life structure as well as training structure then they will have achieved much more than the person who claims to have a perfect kick or punch and is a complete and utter prat with it.

This is why I gravitated to Karate it fulfils a physical and spiritual (and I use this term loosely without any reference to religion), for me Karate is holistic. That is why you still get old boys (and girls) doing Karate, as well as other holistic arts.