Grades

[random]

The whole grades/ability/competency is a whole grey area. I don’t really enjoy sparing in its present mutation. As for competition, I remember the days when an Ipon meant you had won.

But how does this correlate to what a grade means. I agree it shouldn’t be given for length of service, when I meet people who started when I started and haven’t had a few years off, some of them are 4th Dans, but they have worked hard for it, I however have been around for 25 years, but only trained for around 20 of those so by right I should be a higher grade, except I am not in every sense a Black Belt.

Each system of MA has a different way of grading/measuring ability. In a purely sport environment there are no need for belts, what matters are the results of competition, someone who always looses will not be held in high regard and visa versa.

In an art that is more esoteric in nature, more than just the ability needs to be measured. I knew someone who couldn’t throw a roundhouse kick, just couldn’t his physical limitations wouldn’t allow it, his front kick was however something to behold. He achieved 2nd or 3rd Dan before he was forced to retire. He never taught as he couldn’t teach all the basics but he was always there and always showed Great Spirit.

Should he have been allowed to get passed a white belt? He showed an amazing understanding of Karate, as well as good spirit, he was ungainly and somewhat clumsy at times, but the biggest asset to Karate I have ever met.

A grading should represent how a person approaches their art holistically and not just relying on superficial displays.

[AngelaG]

andym said:

Is there such a thing as 'no contact' sparring?

Indeed there is, and there are many dojo that choose that way. In fact it's a measure of one's control.

[AngelaG]

random said:

As for competition, I remember the days when an Ipon meant you had won.

I remember those days too - but then that's because that's how we still run our competitions in my dojo ;D

[random]

angelag said:

andym said:

Is there such a thing as 'no contact' sparring?

Indeed there is, and there are many dojo that choose that way. In fact it's a measure of one's control.

I find that no contact sparring tends to be against very junior grades, smacking a yellow belt around the head every few minutes may sound like fun, but not if you are a yellow belt. It does however tend to go one way, s they tend to have poor control, although it does keep one on ones toes.

[random]

The other thing with grades, why are they so expensive. It can’t be to stop idiots from taking them. What are we actually paying for, someone’s new dojo, or their summer holiday?

[Shorin Ryu Sensei]

random said:

The other thing with grades, why are they so expensive. It can’t be to stop idiots from taking them. What are we actually paying for, someone’s new dojo, or their summer holiday?

That depends on your dojo. I don't charge one penny for testings. Students buy their own belts.

[AngelaG]

random said:

The other thing with grades, why are they so expensive. It can’t be to stop idiots from taking them. What are we actually paying for, someone’s new dojo, or their summer holiday?

What's expensive to you?

[Aefibird]

random said:

What are we actually paying for, someone’s new dojo, or their summer holiday?

Probably both in the case of certain persons that I'm thinking of.

[random]

aefibird said:

random said:

What are we actually paying for, someone’s new dojo, or their summer holiday?

Probably both in the case of certain persons that I'm thinking of.

I knew you would get it ;D

Expense is relative; I suppose I am aware that there are those who never take something up because of the expense that comes with it. I suppose that is why I would like to teach, grade, offer the whole shooting match for nothing. I think my own association has just had a 75% increase in one year to grade to 1st Dan, with inflation around 3% that is a bit of a jump, yet I have not been told why, but I am expected to pay up.

The trouble is, even if I graded to black belt, did my instructors courses, started to teach for free the association whichever and whatever it was, would want their pound of flesh.

I know there is insurance to cover, but…I am sure there are other ways this could be met.

[andym]

It's gonna cost me £90 in total to grade Shodan if (when?) I pass next week, I don't think that's too bad persoanlly....seeing as I get registered with the EKGB for nothing as well!

[Aefibird]

andym said:

It's gonna cost me £90 in total to grade Shodan if (when?) I pass next week, I don't think that's too bad persoanlly....seeing as I get registered with the EKGB for nothing as well!

Good luck with the grading - I'm sure you'll pass with flying colours!

As for registration with the EKGB, there's no such thing anymore.... It's now called "Karate England" and seems to be even more Sport Karate-orientated whan it was when it was the EKGB.

[random]

£90 seems ok, but what are you actually paying for, how does the money break down and how much of it is lining someone else’s pocket.

But putting such matters aside….best of luck.

[AngelaG]

I've no objestion to "lining someone's pocket" as long as everyone is upfront about the costs from the start. You can then choose whether it's worthwhile to you or not. Everyone is entitles to earn a wage, even karate instructors / examiners.

[Aefibird]

Yes, if it was gym membership or tennis lessons or whatever then people wouldn't mind as much about paying it. It does seem to me that people think that MA instructors should somehow do it all for nothing, even full-time ones.

Not getting at you Random (I wouldn't dare! ) as I know where you're coming from, but often people think that paying for MA isn't a good thing and that those teachers that charge nothing and grade for nothing are somehow more 'spiritual' or 'better' or 'more enlightened' or 'more in tune' than those people who dare to charge for instruction or gradings.

I don't mind paying for these things as I think it is a fair comment that MA instructors need to eat and to live and pay the mortgage, but it getteth my goat when OTT prices are charged, especially when the product (be that a test or a lesson or a course or a seminar or whaetver) doesn't seem worth the expense.

[random]

angelag said:

I've no objestion to "lining someone's pocket" as long as everyone is upfront about the costs from the start. You can then choose whether it's worthwhile to you or not. Everyone is entitles to earn a wage, even karate instructors / examiners.

Too much wine as well Angela? I don’t mind someone earning a crust, in fact I would encourage it, the point I was making is that it should be transparent, not hidden in some mumbo jumbo linguistics. In fact, if they were more honest about making a few quid for paying for their knowledge, expertise, and more importantly, time. I might consider grading…after all you pay for what you get. I like to know I am getting it.

I guess that, as in everything, karate has become a watered down consumer product, “I want that Black Belt and I want it now” and so there is the need to charge more, as the more you pay the better it is.