Taking it on the chin...

[AngelaG]

I thought maybe we could have a discussion on the pros and cons of fighting with the back straight and chin up, as we are taught to do in karate; versus curving the back and dipping the chin and tucking it in, as they do in boxing. Which would you use in a real fight, and what is your rationale for your choice?

[random]

That’s an interesting question Angela. I can’t say I have a plethora of experience in ‘real fights’ although when I worked as door security we tended to keep out heads up and use our arms to protect our heads. Bobbing and weaving can be useful against one opponent but two or three I guess you would either get stuck in and do as much damage as possible, or the more sensible, run away.

I don’t think it is necessarily where the head is but how it is protected, we tend to be taught back hand on the sternum or there about and the lead hand out in front shoulder height or there about. In a real situation the back hand needs to be higher around the head, while the lead hand needs to be repeatedly thrown into someone’s face sic the front hand should be up protecting the face.

I think we get too caught up n point fighting, protecting the abdominal scoring areas, where as in a real fight you invariable need to protect the head from a drunk throwing a haymaker.

I don’t think it would be possible to fight in the classical stance, unless you only had one opponent and lots of warning, in that situation one would need to be fluid, not sticking to prescribed mode but rather taking learnt reflex actions and adapting them to any given situation.

[Aefibird]

Thing is as well, with boxing, the position of their guards changes because of the huge gloves they wear. Not having a go at boxing, but their guard with gloves is altered from a guard without because of the very nature of having tons of padding on each hand.

[dickclark]

In the dim past, boxers were trained to stand more upright, the current posture is more modern. Perhaps evolution of learned errors.

[AngelaG]

dickclark said:

In the dim past, boxers were trained to stand more upright, the current posture is more modern. Perhaps evolution of learned errors.

Possibly, or possibly because as the gloves have evolved they can afford to do this.

Watching a boxing match a SENI I was struck (boom boom) by the fact that there was this big muscley guy smacking this other bloke, but all the power seemed to be generated by the shoulders and arms because of the way he was so tensed and hunched up. I think that this huge dude should have been able to KO the other bloke straight away, but he was surpressing his power by the very way he chose to fight.

[Aefibird]

angelag said:

dickclark said:

In the dim past, boxers were trained to stand more upright, the current posture is more modern. Perhaps evolution of learned errors.

Possibly, or possibly because as the gloves have evolved they can afford to do this.

I'd say it was down to the changes in gloves and hand-wrapping that have changed the way boxers fight. To me, the current hunched-over type position would seem to limit available power, rather than enhance it. Evolution of learned errors? Maybe, but I don't see any evolution in a position which restricts power flow.

[AngelaG]

aefibird said:

angelag said:

Possibly, or possibly because as the gloves have evolved they can afford to do this.

I'd say it was down to the changes in gloves and hand-wrapping that have changed the way boxers fight. To me, the current hunched-over type position would seem to limit available power, rather than enhance it. Evolution of learned errors? Maybe, but I don't see any evolution in a position which restricts power flow.

I said as the gloves have evolved

[dickclark]

on the other hand, one of the first things I was taught in boxing and sparring, keep your chin down.

[tez3]

You can keep your chin tucked down but keep your head up, keep the guard up fairly tight, using elbows to protect body especially the liver. You can take body shots easily enough but not a liver shot. Being knocked out by a liver shot is very unpleasant, being knocked out by head shot is not. Punching power comes from feet of course! Dick at Seni what type of fight were you watching? did you go to the Fighters Only stand at all?

[AngelaG]

tez3 said:

Dick at Seni what type of fight were you watching? did you go to the Fighters Only stand at all?

'Twas me at SENI. It was a boxing match.

[dickclark]

angelag said:

dickclark said:

In the dim past, boxers were trained to stand more upright, the current posture is more modern. Perhaps evolution of learned errors.

Possibly, or possibly because as the gloves have evolved they can afford to do this.

Watching a boxing match a SENI I was struck (boom boom) by the fact that there was this big muscled guy smacking this other bloke, but all the power seemed to be generated by the shoulders and arms because of the way he was so tensed and hunched up. I think that this huge dude should have been able to KO the other bloke straight away, but he was surpressing his power by the very way he chose to fight.

I think what you are seeing is the effect of really big dude going into the ring without much training I was watching a K-1 fight, and two really big dudes, ex American footballers, were trying to duke it out. Neither one had a clue on how to generate much power. Each was basically jabbing away (a jab to me is an arm punch, no hip, no body, just jab it out there). Each just could not knock the other down. Too me it is the false thought that a big dude can punch well on their own. Sorry folks, a little technique would have had them knocking the other dude out of the ring.

[Aefibird]

angelag said:

aefibird said:

I'd say it was down to the changes in gloves and hand-wrapping that have changed the way boxers fight. To me, the current hunched-over type position would seem to limit available power, rather than enhance it. Evolution of learned errors? Maybe, but I don't see any evolution in a position which restricts power flow.

I said as the gloves have evolved

D'oh! Please ignore my post, as usual I'm opening mouth before engaging brain.

[tez3]

I have had a couple of street 'scuffles' (due to my job) and quite frankly in that situation you will use anything you can from headbutting, elbows, knees, groin kick, whatever works to get you out of the situation regardless of style. I would say forget the niceties and just get yourself out of the situation, poke them in the eye if you have to! You can keep your chin tucked down with a tight guard but you must protect your body too, you can take shots to the body but you must watch your liver. Being knocked out with a liver shot is very unpleasant whereas being knocked out with a head shot is not.
Dick, what type of fighting were you watching at Seni? Did you go at all to the Fighters Only stand?

[Aefibird]

tez3 said:

Dick, what type of fighting were you watching at Seni? Did you go at all to the Fighters Only stand?

I did - enjoyed it too! ;D

[dickclark]

Have to ask, as I am from the states, what is, are, am?

SENI?